www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology On evolution and the supposed "law that will make the Catholic church change its laws

Hello, peace be with all!
I wish you all a most prayerful and happy Holy Week. I would just like to ask a couple questions of opinion and explanation. Firstly, what might any of you say of evolution? I am fully aware it is merely a theory (and a shaky one at that) that has been deified by the secular society, but I have a specific question in mind. It has been said that the appendix is the only part of the human body that has absolutely no purpose and it is simply "there". It is often said that this is one of the primary "proofs" of our evolution. What might you say in response to this?
Secondly, what is your opinion on this law of the European Union that supposedly will make the Holy Church change its laws on ordination and the woman's role? Do you think it will actually have any effect? I can almost imagine a stand-off where soldiers or police from E.U. countries try to make an "army" of several million Catholics stabd down in front of the Vatican. That would be the last resort, of course.
-Thank you for all your opinions, peace be with you.
Justin,sinner

Don't know much about this but it sounds like something from some fundamentalist protestants talking about the anti-christ and equating it to the EU. Who knows?

I doubt seriously that it will be able to get away withit---for one thing neither Greece nor Turkey would stand for it --- neither I assume, would Italy, Spain, or Ireland--- I believe they are all part of the EU.

Your brother in Christ,
Thomas

so, in other words, you believe that the world was created in "seven days" even though the first day wasn't created until the 3rd day?

now now, I am no bible "thumper", if you will. I am simply saying that evolution is not an official doctrine of the church or of science, but a theory taken way out of context and hijacked by atheist religion. As such, I was wondering if anyone had any response to the arguement above.

Justin,

Personaly I don't believe in Darwin evolution. Of course if it is what happened - and presumably what *is* happening - then it is the truth, in which case so be it I can handle it. But as I see it science is always finding out that things aren't exactly the way we were sure they happened. And so we adapt to the new truth we discover and make another theory off of that. I'm tending to think more along the lines that some of these early humans were another lower form of humanity that died off for a number of reasons not excluding we killing them. You should know Justin that you are geneticaly similar to dogs and cats and to rats and lizards - and even as some have been quoted to be as "hung as a horse"... yes even horses too.

Yet at the same time it would be rather ridiculous - I think at least - to be one of these people that takes the creation story literaly.

I do believe in evolution Justin. I believe in American Chinese who are taller and heartier then their Chinese brothers from China, do to a greater range of foods in their diet. I believe in the possibilty of generations getting more muscular and taller if a society had wide spread implimitations or uses of anabolic steriods and growth hormones. I believe the foods we Americans eat with the pumped up cattle on steriods will effect our line of generations in one form or another. Darwin midget apes to humans - no not really. But I'm not in any ways an expert on this stuff either so you must keep that in mind. But at the same time I have lived long enough to see the scientific community change it's mind over and over again, after being certain over and over again.

Posted by Justin:



Posted by Maximus:



Have either of you read On The Origin of Species?

Without giving any offense to anyone, I would like to ask why we are being asked to deal with this during Great Week?

For Byzantines, we are in 'black fast', we are holding services night and day, we are abstaining from meat and dairy (for the late-comers), and we are focusing on the events of the Passion and the Resurrection.

Although I am not this board's moderator, might I please request that such stuff be held off until the soul-wrenching events of this week and Pascha are resolved?

I understand that our non-Eastern brethren don't hold to the re-experiencing that we Easterns do, but please forgive us our quirks, and give us time and space to return to earthly reality. In some ways, we are on a 'spiritual drug' that takes us away from the mundane realities of this world, including theological debates. And we are being smitten by the realities of the Passion and Death of Our Lord, as we await the reality of the Resurrection.

It is my sincere hope that this board will go 'dead' for the next 5 days (except for the "prayer" forum). And on Saturday night, it will burst forth with incredible light and joy for all of our people at the Resurrection of Christ.

Blessings and prayer for all our brethren!!

My apologies Dr. John, you see, I am new to Byzantine tradition and I was not aware of the need to put all this aside this during this most Holy week. I close this topic with my most sincere apologies.

No apologies needed, dear Brother. It is just a question of growth in the traditions of the faith which you are experiencing. Your intense need to understand is a laurel crown upon your brow. (That's REAL Greek!!) Please keep up your intense interest; please keep up your prayer. And remember all of us here in our "internet parish" in your prayers -- Lord knows, we all need the prayers real bad!!!

Blessings to you and to your family!!! You are truly striving on the path of pilgrimage.

QUESTION?
Not to be offensive or anything but why do you Byzantines observe the western Paschalian instead of the Orthodox one? Also what is this "black fast" all about? I only thought that we were suppost to fast all day during Holy Friday? Have I missed something.
Robert K.
PS. Please excuse my not making this another tread but I just realized that I forgot to. Sorry all.

Dear Brothers, for us Byzantines, we start the Great Fast with Meatfare Sunday -- at the sundown we abstain from meat products; the next week is Cheesefare Sunday -- at the sundown we abstain from dairy products. The formal Lent begins at Cheesefare Sundown.

We fast for 40 days. Then we end "Lent" on Palm Sunday eve. The following week (Great Week or Holy Week) is just a time-out-of-time. We are still fasting and abstaining from meat and dairy, but we are now just supposed to be praying night and day and attending the services that re-enact the path of Christ from His entrance to Jerusalem through the passion up to the glorious Resurrection.

While this may sound REALLY stupid, the fact is: we are on a spiritual drug -- we are spiritually stoned so that really nothing else matters this week. (I believe that St. Paul calls this "drunk in the Spirit"). Thus, there are relatively few cradles around on the Forum. Why? Because we are supposed to be on another planet, as it were. We are totally immersed in reliving the plan of salvation. Thus, we are involved in the 'black fast'; we are going to every service that is offered and that we can attend; and we are avoiding anything and everything that will be a distraction.

Many of our moderators are members of the clergy; they are just overwhelmed at this time. I am (despite what I should be doing) trying to serve as a moderator/overseer to make sure that everything is going well.

Thus, I would hope that we can avoid major issues of discussion (NOT to squelch discussion, hey, I'm a great fan of real discussive interaction), but right now - - for us Byzantines, it's just not the time.

I would beg our non-Byzantine brethren to hold back a bit. While I would hope that our Orthodox brethren would just "know" what's going on, I would ask our Western brethren to please understand where "we are" right now.

If you are really concerned about us Eastern Catholics (and our Orthodox brethren), I would suggest that you make use of the "prayer" section of the forum and be sure to offer your prayers for us Eastern Church brethren/sistren. We are in serious need of all the prayer we can get.

Thanks for your kindness; and thanks for your prayers. Please pray that we can follow the pathway that we are obliged to follow. And we too, will pray for all of those who are inclined to pray for us.

May the Lord have mercy upon all of us.

Blessings!

Okay, I was just asking why.

Also I unfortunate must enquire about the following so that I may properly understand whats going on as regards to Byzantine discipline. From what Ive read, I thought that Byzantine Catholics (At least in America) fasted strictly only on the first day of Lent and Good FRiday and abstained only from meats on all Fridays during this season? I do not mean to seem critical of your discipline, but only curious as to its nature. In rather words, I was under the impression that Byzantine Catholics followed a lighter fast then we Orthodox? BTW, I read the following fasting regulations from a pamplet published by the Pittsburg seminary.
Robert K.

Pittsburg, Kansas? Or Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania?

Once again forgive me for posting before Easter.

[ 03-27-2002: Message edited by: Entomos ]

My Orthodox Christian aunt and cousins will not celebrate Pascha until May 5th. They are now into the first week of the Orthodox Great Fast, I believe.

Do any of the Byzantine Catholic Churches celebrate Pascha according to the Byzantine-Orthodox calendar?

How long have the Byzantine Catholic Churches celebrated Pascha according to the Latin calendar?

Abdur

I'm guessing, but I believe some of the European Byzantine Catholic communities celebrate Pascha according to Orthodox practice.

I would imagine the Byzantine Catholics in America celebrate according to the Latin calendar because they are a minority but desire to celebrate the Holy Feast with their fellow Catholics. Makes sense to me, but I am Orthodox and maybe I am mistaken.

If you are Bektashi, please e-mail me. My mother in law--eternal memory--was born into a Tosk Bektashi family.

You will probably attend Pascha with your aunt and cousins, if you can. Am I right?

BTW: Happy Greek Independence Day! Just kidding. Remember, we are supposed to be getting along!

Blessed Pascha.

ER