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"Irish melkite" are you a member of Sacred Heart Parish? Invictus, LOL. No - I've never been there as a matter of fact. I am, though, the webmaster of the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Directory that ByzCath graciously hosts and to which I linked. Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Invictus, I have one more Byzantine parish in the Detroit-metro area to suggest to you; St. Stephens in Allen Park. I noticed you mentioned a St. Thomas in Allen Park, I have never heard of any Eastern Catholic parish in Allen Park by that name but then I haven`t lived in that area for over twenty years or so, am in Northern Michigan now and unfortunatly, all the Eastern Catholic parishes in Michigan are in the Southeastern part of the state. My family attended St. Stephens when I was growing up and it used to be a very nice Byzantine parish but I haven`t attended any Liturgy there since a family wedding ten years ago. Just another suggestion for you and may Our Lord guide on your search.
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Shlomo (Peace) Invictus, I spent a greater part of my youth in Detroit (I was born at Wayne County General Hospital in Westland). One of the wonders of the Detroit area is that it is one of the most diverse areas for Eastern Catholicism. It was in Detroit that my love for my Church and the East in general was developed. Fr. Glenn of the Ukrainian Catholic Church was the very first priest that helped me understand what it was to be Eastern Catholic. One of the people that I would recommend getting to know is His Grace, Eparch (Bishop) Nicholas, of the Melkite Greek Catholic Church. If you are willing to explore Eastern Catholicism to its fullest, then I would recommend going to the following Churches based on their Traditions: Armenian - St. Vartan's Armenian Catholic Church (Detroit) Tel: 313-584-3345 I would call to find out where the parish is now meeting. Maronite - St. Sharbel [ stsharbelwarren.com ] Address: 31601 Schoenherr Rd. City, State, Zip: Warren, Michigan 48093 Phone: (586) 826-9688 Fax: (586) 826-3521 If you want to see the change in the Maronite Church based on Church style please visit my home parish of St. Maron [ saintmaronchurch.com ] Address: 11466 Kercheval-St Jean City, State, Zip: Detroit, Michigan 48214 Phone: (313) 824-0196 Fax: (313) 824-6418 Syriac - St. Toma Syriac Catholic Church 25600 Drake Road Farmington Hills MI 48335 (248) 478-0835 (Fax) 478-0814 Chaldean/Assyrian - Our Lady of Chaldeans Cathedral 25585 Berg Road Southfield, Michigan 48034 Phone (248) 356-5235 Fax (248) 356-5235 Syro-Malabar - www.syromalabardetroit.com17235 [ syromalabardetroit.com17235] Mount Vernon Street Southfield, MI 48075 Phone: 248-552-6620 Fax: 248-552-6620 E-mail: vicar@syromalabardetroit.org Syro-Malankara - St. Joseph's Syro-Malankara Catholic Church 8075 Ritter Avenue Center Line, MI Home Phone: 586-344-3696 Phone: 586-427-2730 I hope this helps a little bit. Fush BaShlomo, Yuhannon
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Armenian - St. Vartan's Armenian Catholic Church (Detroit) Tel: 313-584-3345
I would call to find out where the parish is now meeting. And, if you do, please post the info here. Where St Vartan's currently meets is one of the great mysteries. Last info that I had was that they were meeting at St Clare of Assisi (Latin) Church, 29200 W Ten Mile Rd, Farmington Hills. However, confirming that has proven frustrating to say the least. Their current entry in our Directory lists their own address - 8541 Greenfield Rd, Detroit - but I am relatively certain that is a mailing address only. (Although they reportedly have a church at the location, and I have a photo of its interior, my efforts to discover why it isn't in use have been fruitless to date.) Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Shlomo Neil, They use to meet at the Greenfield location (I went to Divine Liturgy there quite a few times), but from what I understand that property was taken over by the Community College in the area. If I have time, I will contact the Eparchy to get the information. Fush BaShlomo, Yuhannon (Shawn) Armenian - St. Vartan's Armenian Catholic Church (Detroit) Tel: 313-584-3345
I would call to find out where the parish is now meeting. And, if you do, please post the info here. Where St Vartan's currently meets is one of the great mysteries. Last info that I had was that they were meeting at St Clare of Assisi (Latin) Church, 29200 W Ten Mile Rd, Farmington Hills. However, confirming that has proven frustrating to say the least. Their current entry in our Directory lists their own address - 8541 Greenfield Rd, Detroit - but I am relatively certain that is a mailing address only. (Although they reportedly have a church at the location, and I have a photo of its interior, my efforts to discover why it isn't in use have been fruitless to date.) Many years, Neil
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Ah! I should have noticed it said Massachusetts on your profile. Oh, and thankyou for the links!
Yes, I meant St. Stephens in AP michigan. I don't know where the St. Thomas popped into my mind.....hmmmm. This is the Parish I'm thinking of visiting next perhaps. Since I've been on this forum the options have expanded.
I knew a young lady from the local community college that was part lebanese and she mentioned once that she attended a Maronite church in Detroit. I think that would be really interesting and a good suggestion. I actually mentioned this to a Catholic friend of mine this evening and he sounded interested in going sometime.
I recently came accross a web site called "Fish Eaters", it was quite interesting talking about traditional Catholicism. However, I stopped by the forum associated with the site and it was quite depressing. More negatives than positives on the church. Maybe I just read the negative posts.....anyone else know about this?
Other than the Basilians are there other monastic traditions in eastern Catholicism?
What about the canon of Saints?
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They use to meet at the Greenfield location (I went to Divine Liturgy there quite a few times), but from what I understand that property was taken over by the Community College in the area.
If I have time, I will contact the Eparchy to get the information. Shawn, Anything you learn would be much appreciated. It's on my "to do" list, where it has languished for some time. As the Eparchy has no e-mail addy, the parish e-mail addy is a dead link, and I am free to deal with the directory at bizarre hours, further tracking is just not going to happen soon at my end. Btw, Google map aerial view shows the church, however, as you remarked, the CC is immediately adjacent. The parish had a chunk of land other than that occupied by the temple itself, so it's possible that something along the lines of what you speculate may have happened. Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Shawn,
Anything you learn would be much appreciated. It's on my "to do" list, where it has languished for some time. As the Eparchy has no e-mail addy, the parish e-mail addy is a dead link, and I am free to deal with the directory at bizarre hours, further tracking is just not going to happen soon at my end.
Btw, Google map aerial view shows the church, however, as you remarked, the CC is immediately adjacent. The parish had a chunk of land other than that occupied by the temple itself, so it's possible that something along the lines of what you speculate may have happened.
Many years,
Neil Shlomo Neil, Well I have found them. I talked to the Armenian Catholic priest in Glendale and he confirmed the phone number for St. Vartan [ geocities.com] (313-584-3345) The number is working, as well as the link. Here is the information from the link showing where they meet. Parish Information:
-Pastor: Very Rev. Vartabed Antoin Boutros - Atamian
-The Soorp Badarak (Divine Liturgy or Holy Mass)
Offered at 12:00 p.m. on Sundays.
-A Coffee hour with refreshments follows the Holy Badarak
every week in the hall. All are welcome!
-Location: Sacred Heart Byzantine Catholic Church
On Six Mile Road East of Middlebelt Road in Livonia, MI
-St. Vartan Parish Office: Phone (313) 584-3345
Address: 8541 Greenfield Road - Detroit, MI 48228 And since I am one of the biggest nerds here, I also got the information for the Eprarchy [ armenianeparchy.org] St. Ann Armenian Catholic Eparchy 167 North 6th Street Brooklyn, NY 11211 Tel: 718-388-4218 Fax: 718-486-0615 Email: brooklyn@armenianeparchy.org On the same page they do list the parishes: Sacred Heart Armenian Catholic Church 155 Long Hill Road Little Falls, NJ 07424-2374 Tel: (973) 890-0447 Fax: (973) 890-0292 Church Hall: (973) 890-9899 Email: a1sacredheart@verizon.net Rev. George Kalousieh, Pastor St. Mark Armenian Catholic Church 400 Haverford Road Wynnewood, PA 19096-2699 Tel: (610) 896-7789 Web: www.smacc.org [ smacc.org] Rev. Armenag Bedrossian, Pastor Holy Cross Armenian Catholic Church 200 Lexington Street Belmont, MA 02478-1241 Tel: (617) 489-2280 Email: office@holycrossarmenian.com Web: fmwww.bc.edu/ecclarm Rev. Raphael Andonian, Pastor Our Lady Queen of Martyrs Armenian Catholic Church 1327 Pleasant Avenue Los Angeles, CA 90033-2328 Tel: (323) 261-9898 Fax: (323) 261-0522 Rev. Antoine Panossian, Assistant Pastor St. Gregory Armenian Catholic Church 1510 E. Mountain Street Glendale, CA 91207-1226 Tel: (818) 243-8400 Email: stgregoryacc@yahoo.com Rev. Antoine Saroyan, Pastor St. Gregory the Illuminator Armenian Catholic Church 100 Northdale Road Toronto, ON M2L 2M1 Tel: (416) 444-9924 Email: st.gregory@rogers.com Rev. Mons. Elias Kirijian, Pastor Paroisse Arménienne Catholiqe N. D. de Nareg 858 Côte Vertu Saint Laurent, QC H4L 1Y4 Tel: (514) 748-6435 Email: egarcana@eacn.ca Web: www.eacn.ca [ eacn.ca] Rev. Mons. Georges Zabarian, Pastor I do know that the phone numbers work. Sorry for being a day late, but I am not a dollar short. Fush BaShlomo, Yuhannon (Shawn)
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I just recently reread my first posting here and I have come a long way in my journey. Just as a roll call of parihes I have attended: St. Stephen's Byzantine Allen Park MI, St. George Orthodox Southgate MI, St. George Serbian Orthodox Monroe MI, St. Vladimir's Russian Orthodox Dexter MI, Holy Transfiguration OCA Livonia MI, Holy Incarnation Western Rite Orthodox allen Park MI, St. Michaels Byzantine Oregon Ohio, and St. Michael Ukrainian Greek Catholic Rossford Oh. I have learned alot, yet still have so much to learn. I have discovered that I belong to the Catholic faith and have full respect for our seperated brothers of Orthodoxy. I am currently attending St. Joseph's Catholic Church in Toledo Ohio. An old church in a traditional style that has the "Tridentine" Mass on Sundays at 10:30......a very reasonable time every sunday. With all of the controversy surrounding the "Tridentine" Mass I expected to be Shocked or at least understand the controversy. Well, neither....I found it comforting and understandable. I've attended for the last 2 months. Will I make this my home?.....maybe? But there is still a draw to the East. I have done some reading on the Melkites and would like to attend a liturgy at St. michael Melkite in Plymouth. So, are the Melkites Greek Catholics in tradition or Middle eastern?
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So, are the Melkites Greek Catholics in tradition or Middle eastern? The short answer is that they are both Greek Catholic and middle eastern. They celebrate the Byzantine Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, similar to the Greek and Slavic Churches. The basic liturgical language is Arabic, although English is often used.
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Liturgically, the Melkites celebrate the Divine Liturgy according to the Greek usage (with many local adaptations), using Arabic as their principal liturgical language, supplemented by Greek and whatever vernacular happens to apply at the local level. The Melkites switched from Greek to Arabic as their liturgical language probably around the 9th century, once it became apparent the Byzantines were not going to reconquer the Holy Land (though they did get Antioch again, between the 10th and 11th centuries).
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Correct me if I am wrong Stuart, but the Melkites before accepting Byzantine usage, were Syriac and still retain certain similarities to the Syriac/Malankara Churches in style/practice, although using the Byzantine Rite today.
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Is there any equivlent to the Greek Orthodox in communion to Rome?
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Is there any equivlent to the Greek Orthodox in communion to Rome? It's like the Russian one; there are a few parishes but not much more. It probably doesn't have as many non-ethnic adherents/clergy though.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Byzantine_Catholic_Church The Melkites basically correspond to the Antiochians; there is a Greek Catholic Church corresponding to the Greeks of Constantinople, but very small and on its way to extinction.
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