www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Membership in Roman & Byzantine parishes?

Bob,

May the Lord give you peace!

As a professed secular franciscan of many years and Byzantine Catholic as well I too have run into situations where those of the Latin rite have had difficulty understanding the other lung of the Church. I look at these as opportunities to share
with them some knowledge about the Eastern Lung. Good luck with your continued formation to become a secular franciscan!

Pax eT bonum!
Jeff Majewski, OFS

Bob-
I think you've had you questions answered.

Since Neil mentioned me specifically I can say I am indeed canonically, for the past year, Russian Greek Catholic and am very active in the parish here in San Francisco, on a good day just under an hour from my house. I'm there every Sunday and all the other times we have services, tho I missed our last two first Saturdays due to necessary conflicts.

I'm also a catechist in the RCIA in the Latin parish close to my home and am very often there for daily Mass early morning and for RCIA two nights a week. I'm there for a "Sunday" Mass (ie Sat eve or Sunday) once ever couple of months. I try to do that to keep in touch with parishioners there. For years I was an EMHC there but ceased that once I got serious about my life as an EC, before formally canonically becoming one. We don't have daily Mass there on Wed. when Father is off and then I usually go to Mass with the Dominican friars at their Priory. I was able to get to Stations of the Cross, which I find very meaningful, at my Latin parish once this Great Lent because we are on the old calendar at my Russian Church.

I completed a three year non-degree School of Pastoral Ministry program with the Latin diocese where I live (different from the Archdiocese where our Russian Church is) a few years ago. When our new Cathedral in Oakland was dedicated I was a volunteer for the dedication and thus ended up on the volunteer roster so have helped out at a number of events there since then-- when our Bishop was installed, when the pipes were delivered for the new organ, at Chrism Mass with checking parishes in etc. Also the past 3 and the present Vicar for priests for the Diocese lives in the duplex with our priest at my Latin parish so between all those little things I have ties to a number of clergy and laity in the Oakland Diocese.

I also spent a number of years worshiping with the Latin parish for the Deaf in SF which is really my only main contact in SF with clergy and laity other than at my Russian ECC parish. At OLF we now have a great pastor (ie administrator) from St. Monica's who has been a wonderful experience for me with priests of the Archdiocese, in addition to Fr Vito and Fr Kevin our celebrants who are both priests of the Archdiocese.

Tonight I'm heading to the Greek Orthodox Cathedral not very far 15-20 minutes, from our house for Great Compline.

I'm not sure what you meant, Neil, by "fully" participating at both. As I'm writing this I'm thinking that in my experience Latin Church Catholics are used to going here and there for Mass and while they may have their home parish (where you get your envelopes LOL) they go to daily Mass here or there and confession as well someplace where they've found a confessor they like. So to me it seems perfectly natural to be going to services at the Orthodox when we don't have them in my EC parish. I'm happy to say there are a handful of Latin Catholics who do go to Orthodox Christian Fellowship Tuesday nights for DL, dinner and discussion. I suspect it's a much more orthodox place for their Christian life than the Newman Center, but this I don't know for a fact.

That was a bit of a run on, not sure where it went...

"If I can write in myself the thought and devotion of Eastern and Western Christendom, the Greek and Latin Fathers, the Russian and Spanish mystics, I can prepare in myself the reunion of divided Christians. From that secret and unspoken unity in myself can eventually come the visible and manifest unity of all Christians. We must contain all divided worlds in ourselves and transcend them in Christ." ~~Thomas Merton (Fr. Louis of Gethsemani Abbey)

Again...

Thanks for everyone's comments.

My questions have been answered and I've learned the proper spelling of Metropolitan!

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Neil, could you go into this a little bit more. I am already married but I am thinking about when we have children, if it is God's plan for us. Does a byzantine catholic need to get baptized/married in a parish of their sui juris Church or can it be in any sui juris church that is of the same rite? I ask because there seems to be a good deal of Ruthenian and UGCC parishes but only a handful of Melkite parishes. What does one do if there are no Melkite parishes within driving distance? I would think that you would go to another Eastern Catholic Church if one was available and if not then you go to the nearest RC parish. Is my understanding correct?

The most practical way for a Melkite marriage where there are no parishes is to arrange for a willing Melkite priest to come to your area for marriage in the most practical local parish. Of course this would have to be coordinated with the local pastor.

This may require a weekday wedding and you would have to compensate the priest for his additional time and expenses.

Fr Deacon Paul

That seems reasonable. I am just not sure what the reasoning is behind it. Why can't a Ruthenian priest marry a melkite couple or vice versa and just send the information to the chancery of the couples' sui juris church so that they can record it. I only ask because as an EO i could have been a member of any jurisdiction and could receive all of the mysteries from that parish. Which is of course what happened.

I misunderstood; I had the impression that having a Melkite priest administer the sacrament was important to you. Certainly what you suggested above should be acceptable.

May you have a blessed Great Fast.

Catholics can be married in any Catholic Church by any Catholic priest. When a Catholic of a different Church sui iuris for good reason (lack of access to his Church/priest) seeks marriage in another Church sui iuris there are only permissions required. (There should be no problem getting permission just to be married outside one's own Church sui iuris tho one's priest could object for another reason to the marriage itself for example.)

There are different impediments to marriage in different Churches so that is an issue (Eastern Catholics cannot marry their Godparent as I recall, for example), and only a priest, never a Latin Church deacon, can preside at the marriage.

Like a Baptism and/or confirmation occurring in a Church different from your own canonical Church sui iuris, the records of the parish where the sacrament of marriage (or baptism and/or chrismation) occurs would note in the record that those receiving the sacrament are in fact of another, their specific, Church sui iuris and the home Church/parish would be notified.

Whenever a marriage is to take place in any Catholic Church the man and woman must present recent copies of their baptismal records. Those should clearly show the Church sui iuris of the man and of the woman. IMHO as soon as those in the parish in charge of marriage prep see they have persons coming from a Church sui iuris different from that of the parish they ought to be in touch with their own chancery/canon law office, to be sure they handle the matter correctly.

Ok so that is possible. My question was more about logistics as I don't have experience being a EC (thankfully in all the places we have lived there have been several Orthodox parishes)and just wanted to make sure I understood what the rules or common practices are. But as you said it would be possible to perhaps find a priest willing to travel.

Marriage between any Catholic and an Orthodox Christian is a different matter with different permissions etc.

likethethief,

Thank you for the explanation. Makes perfect sense now.

About the difficulty of participating fully. I am a Latin rite Catholic who belongs to a Byzantine (Ruthenian) parish, where I have been attending for five years. I still do try to keep the Latin holy days, the few of them there are, and usually go back to a Latin parish for that.

My main problem comes...right now, today. I miss the Latin rite Holy Week. Especially Holy Thursday, which back before RCIA and all that, was the day I was received into the Church. The Redemptorists had the priests renew their vows that day, and had a concelebrated mass, and there were 14 of them there. At the end there was a solemn procession with the Blessed Sacrament to the side order, complete with singing Pange Lingua in alternating Latin and English verses. I just can't seem to give it up. I have found a parish where they sing at least part of Pange Lingua in Latin. And every Holy Thursday, I sneak down the street for that service, feeling as if I am deserting.
(Interstingly enough, the pastor of the parish I go to is a biritual Franciscan who sometimes celbrates Divine Liturgy at my parish. Maybe that is why his own parish has a dignified liturgy.)

Good Friday is better, as I take off from work and attend the Latin Rite service at 3P and the Byzantine one at 7.

For the Easter vigil I go Byzantine, but miss some of the ceremonies of the Latin vigil. The Exultet, for instance.

The rest of the year I feel happily Byzantine. But I don't feel I ought to switch rites while I am still so attached to the Latin holy week.

By the way...can my funeral be Byzantine if I am not canonically Byzantine? I would hate to be ushered out with Eagles Wings...
Susan Peterson

Side "altar". I guess emotion got in the way of proofreading.
Susan

Come spend Easter here in New York City. You can go to a Latin Easter Vigil in the evening. We're starting at 8 PM in our parish and will likely be finished by 11 PM. Then you can hop on the F train and go down to St. Michael's for Easter Services there starting at 11:30 PM!