www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Why are you Catholic and not Orthodox?

If there were any Orthodox commune seriously seeking some kind of union with the Bishop of Rome I would take Orthodoxy much more seriously. As far as I can tell such seriousness is nearly impossible since there are so many different Orthodox Church. Heck, some of them are even autocephalic. Say what??? Almost all of the efforts for some kind of reunion seems to be coming from Rome. Moreover, I don't see any religious leader who can stand against the secular or Islamic forces that face us.

No, I'll take the Eastern Spirituality which we enjoy as Eastern Christians along with the stability of Rome.

I don't blame the Orthodox Church for not taking reunion or communion seriously, when Eastern churches already in union with Rome can't even figure out if it's "ok" to have married priests.

The national breakout of Orthodox Churches does not make sense in this day and age, but Rome is just as nonsensical about plenty of other things.

Each must improve to achieve the ideal God hopes for us.

My two above LONG statements being said, I must admit, if any of our eastern catholic hierarchs did finally have enough of Roman nonsense and decided to break communion with Rome (like the Carpatho-Russians, for example), I would have a hard time NOT following them!

Orthodoxy vs Eastern Catholic

In my view Eastern Catholic must be the best versions of orthodox they can be. without restrictions and limitations.
AUTONOMOUS RIGHT?
If they are dictated to by Rome in any way (calling the Bishops to Rome?) then they are subject to Rome and not a church sui iurus.

That they can be summoned and directed by Rome IMPLIES THAT THEY ARE not autonomous.

Does a Sui iurus church differ from a sui iurus Metropolia?

Is there a vast difference of being summoned to Rome by the Patriarch of Rome vs a Cardinal - or is the Cardinal working on behalf of the Pope to summon? Any why not just the Metropolitan - why the Bishops?

Why did the Bishops summoned by Cardinal Sandri go to Rome?
A nice trip to Rome like a vacation and a spiritual connection to the Patriarch of Rome or to be lectured to about celibacy?

perhaps our
russian Catholic Brother is right =
ACROD is right?
perhaps we can never be allowed to be the best orthodox version of ourselves until we break free of the tyranny of The Holy See.

Someone somewhere compared our situation to the Early American Revolution where taxation without representation became too much to bear for the colonists.

by the way ... I've been told by some that I am not Byzantine enough to be Byzantine Catholic - by my brethren Byzantines - with a name like Haydukovich - my ancestors were dying in the fields of battle protecting Hungarian Latin Catholics (among all the others in Europe and Italy) from hoardes of very evil Turkish Muslims long before Latin catholic converts who happen to like Icons became Byzantine Catholic. Of course my ancestors were Orthodox.
(Kosovo Djevojka)

An old Serbian Saying

Politics is religion - religion is politics


and believe me ... Serbians love to argue both ad naseum

Me too! To throw fuel on the fire Metropolitan William is heading to Rome to receive the Pallium.

What? Can you provide a link to this information? And did previous Metropolitans do the same?

I was under the impression that this practice had halted with Metropolitan Judson.

If this is true, (Metro. William to receive pallium)....IN-CRE-DI-BLE! Is this stuff never going to end???...to be honest, I really don't think so...they have swallowed the "papal pill"...When the eastern catholic bishops entered into union with Rome, they AGREEDED to this STUFF, or, when it was hoisted upon them, just passively accepted it. It's all in the 4th Lateran Council-which THEY ALSO HAVE to agree is ecumenical-

Constitution #4:
states the Greek Church owes "obedience to the Apostolic See"; and the Council says,"we strictly order...that...they...conform themselves like obedient sons to the holy Roman Church, THEIR MOTHER." The same constitution asserts the right of Rome to alter the rites and customs of the other patriarchates. This is an error, another example of the papal ideology.

Constitution #5:
states that the Council is ecumenical, and asserts Roman-Papal supremacy:"RENEWING THE ANCIENT PRIVILEGES of the patriarchal sees, we decree, with the approval of this sacred universal synod, that after the Roman Church, which through the Lord's dispensation has a primacy of ordinary power over all other churches inasmuch as it is the mother and mistress of all Christ's faithful...THUS AFTER THEIR PONTIFFS HAVE RECEIVED FROM THE ROMAN PONTIFF THE PALLIUM, which is the sign of the fulness of the pontifical office, and have taken an oath of fidelity and obedience to him, they may lawfully confer the pallium on their own suffragans, receiving from them for themselves canonical profession and for the Roman Church the promise of obedience...let appeal be made to them, when it is necessary, except for appeals made to the Apostolic See, TO WHICH ALL MUST HUMBLY DEFER..."-the papal error.

For years I have read Eastern Catholics "beating around the bush" when it comes to this kind of stuff...they either accept it right out, (swallow the pill) or say, well, we interpret it in our own way...well, sorry, when your bishops agreed to union with Rome, they accepted the fact that they MUST "interpret" this stuff according to ROME'S GOOD PLEASURE, not their own, otherwise, guess what...bye bye...suspension, excommunication, etc...look at what Pius IX did to the Melkite & Chaldean Patriarchs at Vatican I-scandalous!!!

The old monk I know who I mentioned in my earlier posts (who did the jumping from Catholic-Orthodox-Catholic-he is a hermit now), after my telling him about all this new (and more) nonsense from Rome, told me the following:

"Modernism is everywhere, and that's the chief battle. But some of them (e.g. the Ukrainians),[as I mentioned the Ukrainians] given the state of the Roman Church and their subordination in it and loss of identity, might be better to return to the parent Church. They quite definitely ought to hold synods and claim their rightful autonomy-NO ARGUMENTS, NO NEGOTIATIONS. ROME BURPS THE WRONG WAY-BREAK COMMUNION. THE WAY TO DEAL WITH TYRANTS IS WITH THE MACE."

And you know what, I agree with him!
So, I'm praying to the Theotokos, that if she really wants me to "jump ship" to the "other side", I'll do so. But, I ain't denyin' I was never in the Church before, and I ain't goin' to no Orthodox that are modernist to the core and allow every sort of immoral practice under the sun! So, I stay put until she opens the door...until then, what can we do (besides pray & fast)to get our OFTEN backboneless hierarchs (forgive me, all do respect to their holy office, but enough is enough!) to actually do something for once and stand up to Rome!? Is their anything we can do??? We need another St. Alexis Toth!

Didn't he just get back from Rome?

An erroneous statement has been made that the Ukrainians have lost their identity when in fact the Ukrainian Catholic Church is the best known of all the Eastern Catholic Churches. If any group has lost its identity, it is the Byzantine Catholic Church in the USA.

He apparently wasn't around during any of the visits of Patriarch +Sviatoslav to North America, nor in any of our parishes during the supplications before and during the Sobor that elected him a mere few weeks after the retirement of Patriarch +Lubomyr. Like Pavloosh, I'll call that post "hogwash". Patriarch +Sviatoslav has brought a new dynamism that I have seen in very few Eastern Christian leaders (Catholic or Orthodox) in my lifetime.
Многая і благая Вам літа Блаженніший Святославе!!!!

Indeed! While I am not a Ukrainian Greek Catholic, I have watched with great admiration as this dynamic young Patriarch reinvigorates his Church, and all of Eastern Catholicism along with it.

Perhaps before we meet our "destiny to disappear" more of us will become Ukrainian Greek Catholics ...

Hmmm ... sounds a bit strange. (Not jumping to any conclusions about him, just seems a bit strange.)

Any links on the Pallium? That would not sit well with the Orthodox. Did the new Ukrainian Greek Catholic Major-Archbishop/Patriarch receive this from Rome?

These are interesting times for both the BCC and the ACROD. God acts in mysterious ways indeed....