www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall In your opinion does Catholic Doctrine encourage this?

Illegal immigration, cheating, having children or all three?

They all three fit together. One follows from the last. All three.

Don't they have to submit the SSNs of the children they are claiming? I know that I do when I file.

In answer to the question: No, I don't think that Catholic doctrine encourages cheating on one's taxes.

I hope not but I know many Catholics who believe that Catholic doctrine does in fact mandate this.

Why? What does Catholic doctrine have to do with tax law loopholes/lack of enforcement? The last I checked lieing is a sin. Catholic teaching also teaches that, unless it is an unjust law (as opposed to dumb) we are obliged to obey.

Social responsibility teaching also tells us that wrongs are to be righted; so the IRS executives and Congressional oversight offices are actually violating Church teaching by not taking corrective action.

Am I missing something here?

Many Catholics insist that if we don't have open borders we are somehow sinning against those who seek to come to the US. Everything else follows naturally. I would agree with such a position if we had a Catholic Monarch who ruled both the US and Mexico but not until then. I'll see if I can get a friend of mine who is still a member here who holds the position of open borders to post here. I think he's posted recently.

Okay, so the questions is about open borders? We have an open border (more or less) with Canada. Should it be shut tight as well, or do we pick and choose? I have difficulty relating these two issues.

We have immigration laws; I don't think they are considered unjust, so enforcement shouldn't be contrary to Church doctrine. Now, there are some who's "opinion" is different, but opinion is opinion.

The USCCB has called for health care and education for immigrants, and the Social Justice committee seems to hold a position that these benefits should be open to all residents, legal or illegal. I think this is the crux of the issue. I would say that I also disagree with it, but this isn't a doctrine issue in my opinion. In the past the Peace and Justice Committee has run wild and had mostly overridden the Pro-Life Committee, but has been, and continues to be, modified to be more balanced. I was at an orientation where this was greatly discussed.

I will use your comments to argue against some of my Catholic friends. Tell me more about the orientation you attended, if you don't mind.

The orientation was in Washington, DC and was sponsored by the Pro-Life Committee of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) for recently appointed Pro-Life directors of the dioceses/eparchies to make us aware of the various resources available to us and to encourage a common direction.

As most informed Catholics are aware the Peace and Justice influence (i.e. Notre Dame, Georgetown, etc) has been very strong and powerful over the past 40 years. Some of the diocesan directors told stories of their efforts being squashed by the P&J people who had the ear of the bishop, because it didn't fit their liberal mentality.

The leaders of our orientation honestly discussed the differences of the two camps and assured us that a new direction has been chosen by the USCCB steering committee, that Pro-life will have more influence. Cooperation between the "opposing" camps is essential so that the bishops may speak with one voice. It also increases the effectiveness of the Bishop's congressional lobbying person when important bills are introduced in Congress.

At our last session the P&J director was present as a sign that this new cooperation is real.

If one follows the meetings of the USCCB he has certainly noticed the trending change in their agendas with increased emphasis toward social conservatism.

I know the corrosive influence of unsure sounds. Some of my relatives are on the verge of converting but then they hear of some priest say something that sounds like we don't really believe what the official Church says and they back away. The latest is a niece who says that she took basic theology at a Catholic college and claims that they never taught anti-abortion. So she is pro-choice and considers that position to be perfectly Catholic. She gets very defensive and shuts off discussion when I tell her that the Church considers abortion to be wrong. I remind her that I am a retired Theology professor. She then calls me arrogant and judgmental.

One of the reason I did not convert sooner was the conflicting pronouncements of brothers and priests on various subjects concerning the Catholic faith. It is a serious problem.

Is this a doctrine?
One thing I noticed a while ago, in Roman Catholic circles, is that things are called dogmas which have never been infallibly declared. As such, they really have no value besides something to tell people for uniformity.

There is no Roman Catholic teaching that an American taxpayer should refuse to pay his taxes. For goodness sake.

And while the Catholic bishops are free to express their opinions as Americans on this or that pressing issue of the day, their opinions so expressed, even if in conference, do not qualify as "church teaching" and individual Catholics are not bound to agree. Take, for example, the latest episcopal gripe against Congressman Paul Ryan's proposals. That's a matter of the bishops expressing themselves, but it is not, therefore, a matter of "church teaching" that all Catholics must subscribe to. Paul Ryan, a Catholic, is free to respectfully disagree with the bishops on this political issue. The American bishops are not infallible, certainly not in the political realm. Not even the Pope is infallible in matters of politics.