www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West An odd idea

How can borrowing from Eastern Christian tradition and Western tradition possibly be syncretism? Syncretism is the combining of contradictory beliefs (like Catholic and Protestant doctrines, or Cathoicism and Hinduism, for example). The beliefs of the Christian East and West are only seen as contradictory by the Eastern Orthodox. Catholics on the other hand believe they are different expressions of one Truth and they are two lungs within one Church.

Precisely. That wasn't my experience with East vs. West; once my husband and I turned to the East we never looked back. But it was my experience with Catholic vs. Protestant. I tried for a long time to have both -- or was it neither? I wanted to do things my way. I'll never forget the moment when the good Lord made it very clear that that wouldn't work: No, dear. You have to do things my way.

I'm fairly certain that the same principle applies to East-West. Can a Western Christian pray the Jesus Prayer? Can an Eastern Christian pray the rosary? Can a priest have bi-ritual faculties? Of course. But at some point, the soul must choose between East and West, because straddling the two becomes uncomfortable and unless you dedicate yourself to one, you can honor neither. IMHO, of course.

Are you serious? You're really equating those with a love for both lungs of the Church with new age hippies and modernist heretics?
If you can hear me up on that high horse of yours, I'm truly sorry to have contaminated the religious pool with so much modernist, hippified heresy. I'll go back to my ashram now.

JDC,

Sorry for the tone of that last post. I just found your remarks insulting and was too quick to respond.

Yes, what we've been talking about here could well be a passing stage in someone eventually becoming fully Eastern. In all honesty, if I had more access to an Eastern Catholic parish, I would be more fully immersing myself in the East. I admit that trying embrace Eastern spirituality as a Roman Catholic isn't easy. What I object to is the idea that it's somehow wrong or heretical.

Syncretism is the combining of contradictory beliefs....The beliefs of the Christian East and West are only seen as contradictory by the Eastern Orthodox. -Desertman

Did you not answer your own question?

And not even by them, if the Western-Rite Orthodox count for anything.

Hello:

Could you please enlighten me as to the statement you made in bold type? Thank you.

Seraphim

While I am thinking about and I nean no offense to anybody but I must say that the two lungs thing is really rather silly. There are probably a number of folks who are Eastern Catholics who would agree with me in light of the the way Rome treats the Eastern Catholic Churchs like red headed step children. Many Eastern Orthodox Christians mistrust Rome because of their attitude. My apologies if I have caused any offense but there is an elephant in the room that no one has noticed.

Seraphim

I don't know what to make of this "both lungs" thing. Frankly I think it's a lot of feelgoodey nonsense with little, if any, useful meaning.

Anyway I have no objection to being influenced by the Christian culture around you. I suppose it was ever so, and no other way is possible.

What I object to is the conscious program of picking this element or that, as fancy strikes. Call me a hard-hearted Latin, but where I see usefulness in being bound in obedience, and good in aiming for a proposed ideal, I see little hope for spiritual growth in a self-initiated and self-directed program of picking what I like, under the cover of "lungs" rhetoric.

Slava Esusu Khrystu!

Yes, Eastern & Western Christians must be who they truly are-either Eastern or Western, and that must be their first focus, in their worship, spiritual practices, etc... If a Roman Catholic started attending Eastern Divine Liturgy exclusively, saying Jesus Prayer, reading the Philokalia without stop, I would suggest that it might be better for him to join one of the Byzantine Churches.

That being said though, there is NOTHING wrong for a Catholic of ANY ritual Church to choose and use a devotional practice, custom, spiritual reading, etc... of another if it helps him grow in union with God. I'm a Ruskie-Ukie Catholic, LOVE my Church and all it's rich heritage, but I also love the Rosary, and will never stop saying it-why? Because it is holy and helps make souls holy!-and I have found it a tremendous help to me(heck, the thousands of miracles over centuries are enough to tell me it's "kosher"!). I listen to Coptic & Assyro-Chaldean chant often-just love it, and it helps raise my soul to God. Ever read the life of St. Theresa of the Child Jesus? I did, and fell in love with this powerful saint and have great devotion to her-GASP!-but she's a WESTERN, ROMAN CATHOLIC nun! Yep, western, Roman, Carmelite and a WONDERWORKER-teaching her "little way" even to Russian Orthodox who arrived in Paris fleeing the Communists, who heard about her, began to pray to her, and were having their prayers answered in droves!-to the displeasure of some Roman Catholic clergy!
St. Dimitri of Rostov loved the Sacred Heart, St. Seraphim of Sarov loved his Rosary (yes, I know, the "Rule of the Mother of God", but it is basically the same thing-15 decades and all!).
Ever read the Armenian meal prayers-absolutely beautiful; thus, on occasion, I use them.

Yes, we must use what our own Church "provides" for us first to grow closer to Our Lord-but, if there is also something else from another that helps you personally to come closer to deification, USE IT!

It was a broad statement that I now realize was completely unfair based on my own inadequate experience. I guess what I was trying to say is that it often seems to me as though many Catholics venerate the Orthodox and regard their faith as being essentially the same, only separated from one another and expressed differently. Whereas one often gets the impression from many Orthodox that the feeling is not mutual.

To all here, I'm asking forgiveness for the way I've expressed myself on this thread. I was in a bad mood and was being reactionary. No excuse, I know.

Having said that, I thought this forum was always more open and welcoming toward those with an appreciation for "both lungs". Now I'm being told the idea is naive and sentimental at best, sycretism at worst. I guess you guys burst my bubble! Once again, sorry everyone for being so defensive.

Hey, what are friends for? But seriously, the "two lung" idea has always had both supporters and opposers, and I think there are plenty of both on this forum. So don't feel like you're alone.

Hello Desertman:

No worries. I get a little defensive as well sometimes and find myself in the junk yard dog syndrome. (-;

I will try to explain things from my perspective though it is just my opinion which I will admit can be a bit biased. When I approached the East everybody and their brother made it their business to tell me that the East and the West where for the most part essentially the same. They are not. The whole understanding of sin for example is different. I won't elaborate here but I am sure there are many posts in this forum regarding this subject and tons of books as well. This is just one example, there are others. Essentially the approach to the end result is different but the result is the same. Sort of like 4+4=8 and 5+3=8. Yeah I know it is a gross over simplification. Long story short, I tried to combine the two understandings and blew a fuse, for me at least it had to be one or the other. As for the two lungs thing, we don't have to meld East and West spirituality to become united. What has to happen on both side is that we gain a mutual respect for one another which is one of the things this forum is all about.

Seraphim

Thanks, Pete.