www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Episcopal Church USA Meltdown Continues

The news is reporting today that the bishops of the Episcopal Church USA have approved new prayers/blessing for gay couples:

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/episcopal-bishops-ok-trial-1475382.html

Lord, have mercy. Let us pray for an end to such madness.

The Episcopal group was the first to approve artificial contraception. I suspect that unless the UCC's have already beat them to it they will lead much of Protestantism down this rat trap as well.

Not surprising they have been talking about it for years...I also read they want to ordain transgender clergy. This is modernism and liberalism gone amuck within a once orthodox Anglican church.

The Episcopal General Convention is a bicameral legislative assembly comprised of the House of Bishops and the House of Deputies. Proposals must pass both houses.

That should prove no hurdle for in recent years the House of Deputies has been the more liberal of the bodies.

This is tragic--the only good outcome will be that even more Episcopalians will seek refuge in the conservative Anglican Church of North America.

Or the Catholic church...

I read that ECUSA is going to sell its New York headquarters. They don't have the money to keep it functioning.

The "Provisional Rite of Blessing" for same-sex unions became official with its passage early this evening by the House of Deputies.

Laity voted 70% in favor; Clergy voted 76% in favor.

It is hard to imagine now, but a mere half century ago some Orthodox hierarchs encouraged their faithful to receive the Sacraments in an Episcopal church if there was no Othodox church in their community.

Kyrie Eleison.

Fr. Thomas, just to make the point, but whether they are blessing same sex unions is a separate question to whether they had valid sacraments. If, for example, a Catholic Church sui juris also decided to do this, it might effect its ecclesiastical standing, but not the validity of its sacraments.

Such shenanigans on the part of any sui juris Catholic Church would have the effect of invalidity of the sacrament of Matrimony - at least for a same-sex "marriage".

I suspicion the Pope of Rome wouldn't cotten to that. Nor do I think any sui juris Catholic Church is gonna "cut up" in such a fashion.

Well clearly a same sex marriage would be invalid, but I don't buy that it would invalidate a heterosexual marriage performed by the same priest if the Church had true sacraments. If the Church is a true Church, it doesn't stop being one if it happens to be filled with crazy people. If it isn't a true church, it's sacraments were invalid anyway.

Hey, guess what! Sing hallelujah! Clap your hands and shout for joy!

"Church" is FOR crazy people. I reckon one's particular crazitude is subject to evaluation or moderation by someone...some manifestations of it are downright dangerous and constitute a menace to the point of lethality.

The most neurotic people I know all go to church on a regular basis - yours truly included. Just think how bad we'd be if we DIDN'T go.

BTW, lotsa more or less "false" churches have valid sacraments. At least most of the time.

If I were an engineer and it were possible, I'd invent the "validometer". It would be a device you could aim in the direction of a putative sacramental celebration and it would have a light on it that would go green if the celebration were valid and red if it weren't.

Same Sex Union in a church claiming apostolic succession = RED

Anglicans and Episcopals fleeing a radically left church hierarchy in favor of Orthodoxy = GREEN

Pope blessing Married Anglican Priests as Catholic Priests while ignoring Married Eastern Catholic men as possible candidates = RED

People in the Eastern Catholic and Orthodox tradition holding onto their traditions and being VOCAL about it = GREEN

Oh, but didn't I mis-speak myself! Of course you're correct: churches "blessing" same-sex unions could - and probably would - continue having valid heterosexual marriages. It doesn't take much for validly baptised Christians to enter into the Sacrament of Matrimony. And non-baptised people enter valid non-sacramental marriages all the time.

Now what strikes me as bizarre about this is: Catholic praxis asserts that baptised non-Catholic Christians can receive the Sacrament of Matrimony UNAWARES.

But this is getting off-topic...

LIKE!