The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
EasternChristian19, James OConnor, biblicalhope, Ishmael, bluecollardpink
6,161 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,331 guests, and 83 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,508
Posts417,509
Members6,161
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 79
J
Member
Member
J Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 79
Would a Latin rite person who regularly attending an Eastern Rite Church, and accepts their beliefs and practices, find themselves in any way in conflict with the Latin Rite? One example might be that some Eastern Catholics see the Pope as separate among equals in regard to other bishops. Their are probably other issues that don't come to mind. It is obviously acceptable to receive communion within either rite, so I do not see that as an issue.

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 396
J
Member
Member
J Offline
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 396
There is no issue to see.

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,334
Likes: 96
Moderator
Member
Moderator
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,334
Likes: 96
JW55:

Christ is in our midst!!

First of all, I think it's best to keep in mind a saying attributed to St. Seraphim of Sarov whe one starts to ask this type of question.

St. Seraphim said, in essence, that all the practices we do as Christians are not ends in themselves. They are means to the end of acquiring the Holy Spirit of God within us. All the practices and all the rest are merely the means. And we need to remember that.

I am a Latin Catholic. I have studied the Eastern Churches and been a member at one point in my pilgrimage. The tussle back and forth over who is the highest ranking bishop or how he is related to his brother bishops doesn't even penetrate my day-to-day struggle to stay faithful to the Lord and His teaching. I've got more immediate things to struggle with. Keeping an example for my children, my brethren in my parish, my colleagues at work, etc., all keep me focused on more mundane things than who is the boss bishop.

And I take something from my father, who was Lutheran, with me. He said he didn't much care what a man did on Sunday morning. It's all about how a man lives his life the rest of the week from what he's gained on Sunday morning. There are a lot of folks I've run across who must spend their Sunday morning figuring out how to stick their neighbor from the way they live--probably the only time they have from actually sticking everyone they can the rest of their week.

So go to Mass or to the DL and remember that this activity in which you are immersed is the only reality we have here on this earth. It's where we meet the living Lord in the breaking of the Word and Bread. It'w where we are plunged again into His Passion, Death, Resurrection, Ascension, and where we meet Him coming humbly again to us as our nourishment.
Bob

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,189
Likes: 2
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,189
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by theophan
JW55:

So go to Mass or to the DL and remember that this activity in which you are immersed is the only reality we have here on this earth. It's where we meet the living Lord in the breaking of the Word and Bread. It'w where we are plunged again into His Passion, Death, Resurrection, Ascension, and where we meet Him coming humbly again to us as our nourishment.
Bob

I really really like this last paragraph! Father reminds us of this frequently.

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426
Member
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426
Originally Posted by JW55
Would a Latin rite person who regularly attending an Eastern Rite Church, and accepts their beliefs and practices, find themselves in any way in conflict with the Latin Rite? One example might be that some Eastern Catholics see the Pope as separate among equals in regard to other bishops. Their are probably other issues that don't come to mind. It is obviously acceptable to receive communion within either rite, so I do not see that as an issue.


No conflict, depending on what direction you see yourself taking. For myself, I'm trying to grasp, as fully as possible, Eastern Catholicism. This is to say, I'm trying to get in tune with it all, and not just to experience the rite, for the rite's sake.

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 610
J
JDC Offline
Member
Member
J Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 610
Bob might have said it better, but for pete's sake, everybody should stop worrying about all this junk and just go pray, because, you know, the Holy See's probably not going to have you consulting on the papacy any time soon.

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426
Member
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 426
Agreed, JDC.

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 308
C
Member
Member
C Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 308
Originally Posted by JW55
Would a Latin rite person who regularly attending an Eastern Rite Church, and accepts their beliefs and practices, find themselves in any way in conflict with the Latin Rite? One example might be that some Eastern Catholics see the Pope as separate among equals in regard to other bishops. Their are probably other issues that don't come to mind. It is obviously acceptable to receive communion within either rite, so I do not see that as an issue.


If one's view of the Pope is different from the Roman Catholic view of the Pope, then one is not Catholic. As Pastor Aeternus states, those who do not accept those views are anathemized.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
Gee, so much for dialogue. I suppose, then, that my entire Church has been anathematized.

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 396
J
Member
Member
J Offline
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 396
I guess hell is going to be full of Romans who haven't signed the Pastor Aeternus pledge, myself included. I think we can finally solve this whole thing about whether Orthodoxy or Catholicism is the true church. We can set up one of those Old Testament style competitions. We can put ConstantineTG and haydukovich, who is posting on the Christian East and West thread, in a cage and see who walks out. Maybe we can rent to Colosseum for the event.

Honestly, absolutist pronouncements add little to the discussion.

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Member
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Originally Posted by JW55
Would a Latin rite person who regularly attending an Eastern Rite Church, and accepts their beliefs and practices, find themselves in any way in conflict with the Latin Rite?


I don't think so. For every canon that says Latin Catholics must believe blank, you can find a canon that says that Eastern Catholics must believe blank.

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Member
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Originally Posted by JimG
We can put ConstantineTG and haydukovich, who is posting on the Christian East and West thread, in a cage and see who walks out.


You obviously don't know Constantine.

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Member
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Originally Posted by StuartK
Gee, so much for dialogue. I suppose, then, that my entire Church has been anathematized.


So ... you don't believe in having dialogue with anyone who has been anathematized, or what?

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 421
Member
Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 421
I meant it guys ... don't make me quote Bulgakov again!

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 324
Member
Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 324
Originally Posted by JW55
Would a Latin rite person who regularly attending an Eastern Rite Church, and accepts their beliefs and practices, find themselves in any way in conflict with the Latin Rite? One example might be that some Eastern Catholics see the Pope as separate among equals in regard to other bishops. Their are probably other issues that don't come to mind. It is obviously acceptable to receive communion within either rite, so I do not see that as an issue.

As a Latin Rite Catholic who has only for some months now begun to experience Eastern Catholicism, I perceive subtle differences that I would not necessarily identify as conflicts.

With respect to the precise character of the office and jurisdiction of the Pope, it seems to me that different Eastern Catholics might entertain somewhat different notions, if only subtly different notions within a range of loyalty to the position of the Church, if they were forced to think about the matter or to opine on it.

My own perception of the role of the papacy in the context of the hierarchy of the Church, has, I think, been broadened on account of my encounter with Eastern Catholics and with Orthodox Christians insofar as they are keen to point out that once upon a time in history, the Roman Patriarchate did not really claim or practice the direct, universal jurisdiction which characterizes the papacy of today.

That style of monarchical and unilateral leadership from the Patriarch of Rome that we are familiar with today is not traceable to the origins of the office, but has evolved as such, often with political implications. I don't think it would be a disloyalty to accept the current position of the Church regarding the papacy while at the same time refusing to be in any way scandalized should the current position be someday modified to embrace a more ancient understanding of just what the Patriarch of Rome meant to the Church back in those times when the Church was still One.

I think there is a way for Rome to maintain her formal doctrine of universal jurisdiction in theory while at the same time relinquishing the idea in practice, in favor of a more ecumenical approach to governing that could be acceptable to the Orthodox Church. In essence, the papacy would still, theoretically, regard the Roman Patriarchate as one infallible guarantor of authentic teaching (the other...and more august...infallible guarantor being, of course, an Ecumenical Council of the Church), while at the same time surrendering to the notion of decentralized government, shared responsibility with the other patriarchs for decisions which face the whole of the Church (but for which the convocation of an Ecumenical Council is not necessary), and appellate, rather than immediate jurisdiction, in matters that require some judgment or other (but not without the input of the other patriarchs).

I think there is a sense in which the Eastern Catholic is probably better attuned than the Roman Catholic to possibilities for change regarding the papacy's approach to leadership within the universal Church. And it occurs to me, too, that, since the papacy itself has opened the doors to dialogue concerning its own character, Roman Catholics should feel free to imagine various possibilities for future modification of the role and behaviour of the papacy, without worrying that they might, in so doing, be guilty of any disloyalty to the papacy.

If the papacy, itself, is willing to take a look at itself and listen to the thoughts of the Orthodox about modifications in papal behaviour that may one day seem to make sense, then I see no reason why I should not likewise be able to speculate about such possible modifications, guarding, of course, all due respect and reverence for the Church's position at the moment, and bearing in mind that there is a difference between hope for eventual good changes and renewal that make sense, and a spiteful, revolutionary attitude that has no respect for the present mind of the Church, and no patience for the Church's slow pace of reform.

So, no, I don't see conflict, at all, but rather a more nuanced approach and perspective.

Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Moderated by  theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0