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No, we're not. Communion cannot be addressed in such a legalistic manner. To do so actually ignores the history of relations between the Latin and Eastern Churches both before and after the breaking of communion. One does not even have to read between the lines of the Ravenna Statement (paras 35-39) to understand the process of relativization to which all the second millennium general synods of the Western Church, and with it, the entire issue of what constitutes a true dogma.

This simplifies and misrepresents a very complex relationship, one not entirely marked by friendly intentions, and often by outright hostility of the Latin Church to its so-called "Eastern rites". Communion has often been a one-way street, with all the traffic moving West. And while, in theory, the Vatican II Decree on the Oriental Churches has established the true ecclesial status of the Eastern Churches in communion with Rome and identified their rights, in practice the Eastern Catholic Churches are still treated as second class citizens (Father Serge used the term "spiritual helots"), subject to a host of restrictions with regard to the exercise of their Tradition and their rights as true Churches.

Given statements coming from the Curia, as well as from individual Latin churchmen, it's not at all clear that our relationship with Rome is "even growing stronger".

Seems to me that the best way to get Rome to take the ECCs seriously is to make profound amounts of converts.

If the ECCs were even 20% of the faithful, I think Rome would perk up a lot.

Prayers for EC converts! (And EC babies!)

I can kind of sense this, the closer I draw Eastward. I still have my parents' initial taken aback reaction to my commitment to the Byzantine tradition, on my mind.

At the grassroots level, evangelization isn't seemingly on a parish's to-do list. At least, when it comes to the rather small Byzantine parish I've been going for liturgy. I recently signed onto an evangelization group (Latin-rite dominated). Maybe, I'll learn a thing or two. But, as I said something, on CAF, about parish, or collective spirituality, evangelization efforts vary, parish, by parish. It's determined by the mentality of the majority demographic. I may talk to the parish priest, at the Byzantine church, to see what can be done to restore the ECF (Early Christian Formation) program it had. I'd have to find out why, if it has indeed, it's no longer present (at least, from my perspective).

When Rome has discouraged one from doing something for four hundred years, getting back in the habit takes some time.

Yeah, I've been born, baptized, and confirmed Roman, even though I was an altar boy at a Byzantine Church at the time, then returned to the Latin Rite after Confirmation, I made the choice to switch back to the Eastern Church recently, and decided to stick with the Divine Liturgy as long as I basically can. In this time when religious freedom is threatened in this country, it's good to stick with the stronger (although obviously not the larger) of the two major Catholic Rites, and to stand our ground in these difficult times. In short, even though the Divine Liturgy is not as common in this country as the Latin Rite, it does deliver a stronger message, and makes one feel closer to God, imo. That's why I went back.

agreed. It doesn't help, either, as you point out, when Western Catholics (some) aren't even acutely aware of its Eastern brethren, let alone promoting it.

This is only my personal opinion.. If I am wrong then may be I am a heretic

- about the Eastern Catholics as 2nd class Catholic : it is because 1) so little promotion and information regarding Eastern Catholic Churches. Even most of the Roman Catholics have never heard of ECC. If media talks about Catholicism then all we get and see most probably is the Roman one. And if people talk about Eastern Church then most people will think about Orthodoxy. Like most people in my country, when we talk about ECC before an RC forum attended by priests, nuns, bishop and lays, most of them are so stunned, asking each other "Eastern Rite Catholics" what the hell is that?? We never heard of. 2) ECC faithfuls are so small compared to Roman Catholics. They underestimate you guys because of that. Try to be more brave to evangelise and expand missions to nations outside the traditional ethnicity. Some people ask, "hey, ECC have been in communion with RC for such a long time, why their number is so small?? Do they not do anything during this period?"

- about the Roman Catholic : I don't think that we may put RC in the same position as Arianists neither the Iconoclastics. RC is not heretic according to ECC. Yes RC has their own Tradition and Theological perspective. But not heretic.

- about believing all the Orthodox teachings : yes, as an EC by heart I believe all the Orthodox teaching except those negative saying toward the RC. Simply because those comments are so emotional, produced by I don't know, "trauma" or "bitterness". And I am sure that Orthodox has never taught those for the first milenium of Christianity. Or, have they alrady changed?

- about Pastor Aeternus : I believe the dogma, with assumption that Pope has made consultation before issuing a dogma from Ex Cathedra. A dogma should be given unanimous approvals from bishops,shouldn't it? And he use the infallibilty only twice during the history.

- about immaculate mary, well it is true that Mary is blameless (even the Orthodox admit it). Did she conceive immaculately without sin? Well, Eastern Orthodox say of not having concept about original sin. I don't see any confrontation actually.

Hardly. Pope John Paul II made us the subject of no fewer than three of his most important writings: Orientale Lumen, Ut Unum Sint, and Ecclesia in America. It isn't that the faithful don't know who we are, it's that the hierarchy of the Latin Church--and in the Vatican--really find us to be inconvenient and wish we would go away. If Latin bishops thought it important that their faithful know and appreciate us, they would take concrete actions to do so (a few have, most have not).

That, combined with a deep-rooted belief that Roman Catholic (i.e., Latin) liturgy, spirituality and theology are normative not only for all Catholics but for all Christians, creates an attitude that we are just a quaint remnant of the past that has outlived its time. The Latin delegates from the U.S. went to Vatican II intent on suppressing the "Eastern rites" in their country; I don't see much on their part that says they wouldn't do the same thing again, today.


No, it's the result of a deliberate policy of repeatedly telling Eastern Catholics their only purpose is looking after the souls of "their people"--leave evangelization to the "real Church", there's a good boy.


Deliberate efforts to impinge on the Tradition of the Eastern Catholic Churches and to encourage defections of Eastern Catholics to the Latin Church have not helped very much, either.


Consultation with whom? The whole Church--or just those bishops with whom the Pope is speaking at the moment? When the Orthodox Church gets a chance to weigh in, and accepts Pastor Aeternus, then it will have some claim to dogmatic status, and not before.

Some Western Catholics aren't promoting Eastern Catholicism?

All Catholics can attend any Catholic church, Eastern or Western. The unity between the Catholic Churches is manifested whenever the Roman Pontiff concelebrates with Eastern Catholic patriarchs. The discussions on this forum show that there are differences of theological opinion, but these differences do not impede communion.

Let me rephrase. There may be promotion, but it falls on deaf ears. And, it goes back to a point about going into a church of a given rite only for the rite's sake, and not investigating deeper. That's why I, personally, think many go for the first time, feel lost, then stop going after the first or second time.

As a convert myself (a real one, not a "rite hopper"). I'd have to say that most of the losses suffered by the Greek Catholics have come among cradle Greek Catholics, not because of lack of evangelization. To be frank, it's highly inconvenient to be a Greek Catholic, and having been subjected since birth to the "Catholic is Catholic" mantra, is it to be wondered that large numbers of them come to see the local RC parish, with its five Masses on Sunday (plus one on Saturday evening) as being an easier option than continuing to belong to a Church that is neither Orthodox nor Roman, constantly denigrated by both, subjected to pushing and pulling and all sorts of factionalism.

That ^^ was a joke btw.