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Hi, this is my first post here.
I used to be a Latin rite Catholic, or according to the Catholic Church one is always a Catholic even if one has left the church.
For the last two years I have been catechized by the Greek Orthodox Church in Greece, I have re learnt my faith from the ground up, The way I think, the way I pray, the way I worship, the way I read the Holy Scriptures has changed completely. I have learnt to love God from the heart, instead of head knowledge.
I am completely happy with what I have learnt and the way the Orthodox Church worships, But there is one problem !
I have this nagging voice in my heart telling me that this is the fullness of truth and faith, but it is telling me that The Orthodox Church and myself should be in communion with Rome.
There is no way I could return to the Latin Rite church, that would just turn everything That I do and have learnt upside down.
So I am confused about this, is it possible That I could return to Rome in the Greek Catholic Church, so to keep the eastern tradition close to my heart and be in communion with Rome.
That way I would be both Orthodox and Catholic as it was pre-schism.
I know there is a Greek Catholic Church the other side of the city that I could go to,
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Hi, this is my first post here.
I used to be a Latin rite Catholic, or according to the Catholic Church one is always a Catholic even if one has left the church.
For the last two years I have been catechized by the Greek Orthodox Church in Greece, I have re learnt my faith from the ground up, The way I think, the way I pray, the way I worship, the way I read the Holy Scriptures has changed completely. I have learnt to love God from the heart, instead of head knowledge.
I am completely happy with what I have learnt and the way the Orthodox Church worships, But there is one problem !
I have this nagging voice in my heart telling me that this is the fullness of truth and faith, but it is telling me that The Orthodox Church and myself should be in communion with Rome.
There is no way I could return to the Latin Rite church, that would just turn everything That I do and have learnt upside down.
So I am confused about this, is it possible That I could return to Rome in the Greek Catholic Church, so to keep the eastern tradition close to my heart and be in communion with Rome.
That way I would be both Orthodox and Catholic as it was pre-schism.
I know there is a Greek Catholic Church the other side of the city that I could go to, It would seem to me that if you are an "Orthodox" Christian at heart but that your conscience will not be quieted until you find yourself once again in formal communion with the Roman Pontiff, then the Greek Catholic Church of which you speak would, indeed, be the very best solution. If you were baptized a Latin Rite Catholic, you'll want to explain your circumstances to the local Catholic clergy. Let them know that you started out as a Catholic but at one point in your history you departed from your practice of the Catholic religion and that, returning to the practice of the Christian faith, you found a spiritual home amongst the Orthodox. Ask the clergy with whom you speak to advise you of anything that must be dealt with in the Sacrament of Reconciliation or of any penalties that will need to be lifted. I don't know how "formal" your separation with Rome was. If there was no formal abjuration of the Catholic Faith on your part (or no formal union with the Orthodox Church), a simple absolution by the priest following your confession will probably take care of everything. In any event, the clergy with whom you speak will know the answers. Be assured, however, that the process of reconciliation (if any process is even required) will not be a painful or traumatic one. Once you have taken care of the requirements for reconciliation (if any) that the Catholic clergy advise you of, you will be free to communicate at ANY Catholic church of ANY rite, including all of the Eastern ("Greek Catholic") Rites. But you can begin attending liturgy at the Greek Catholic church immediately. No need to wait for anything just to attend. The fact that you are, legally speaking, a Latin Rite Catholic, does NOT mean that you are limited to the Roman Catholic Mass! You may, in fact, avoid the Latin Rite Mass altogether, in favor of worship in ANY Catholic rite you like! You may, in fact, worship in EVERY Catholic rite there is (and there are a number of different rites used within the Catholic Church). You may, for example, go to the Roman Catholic Mass one week if you like, the Greek Catholic Liturgy the next, then the Maronite Liturgy after that, followed by the Melkite liturgy, &c, &c, &c. In short, you could go the rest of your life as a Catholic without ever experiencing the Latin Rite Mass, again, if you so choose. Also, rest assured that the "Orthodox" spirituality you have developed is not in conflict in any way with "Catholic" spirituality. Remember that "Catholic" does not have to mean "Roman Catholic". There is no need, therefore, to replace your "Orthodox" devotions and prayer systems and spirituality with Roman Catholic devotions and modes of prayer and spirituality. Really, once you are reconciled and in full communion with Rome again (if you are not already), there is nothing you will need to change about your spiritual and liturgical approach to the Christian life. Keep it up. Go to the Greek Catholic church and don't change a thing. The only thing that will change, really, is your affiliation. Everything else that you are, as a Christian, will remain essentially the same. I, myself, am a Latin Rite "Roman" Catholic and I have stopped going to Mass on Sunday. On Sunday, I worship in the "Greek Catholic" rites at various Byzantine Catholic churches nearby. I have come to appreciate the Eastern rites and to prefer them. That having been said, oftentimes I desire to communicate during the week, and my only option for that is the Latin Rite liturgy, since where I live there are no "Greek Catholic" churches that offer "daily" liturgies (at a convenient time), so it's nice to be able to take advantage of that. Although, as a Latin Rite Catholic, you are free to worship in any Catholic church of any rite, you may find that you have the desire to leave the "Roman Catholic" (Latin Rite) Church and become a Greek Catholic, formally speaking. That is a possibility. There is a lengthy and difficult process involved, I understand, however, to formally change rites within the Catholic Church. If you're willing to endure all the red tape, however, it is an option to consider. For the moment, however, I would simply remain a Latin Rite Catholic, formally, but worship with the Greek Catholics in practice. That will satisfy all the liturgical and spiritual needs that you developed in your walk with our Orthodox brothers and sisters. Once you've gotten your feet under the table, you can then make a decision about formalizing your affiliation with the Greek Catholic Church, if you so desire. All the best to you as you make your journey back into the Catholic fold. Welcome home!
Last edited by Roman Interloper; 08/21/12 01:08 PM. Reason: typo
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Go to the Greek Catholic Church and tell them your situation. I'm not sure if they will require you to go to a Latin bishop or what to "reinstate" you to the Catholic Church but just follow their advice. I believe this would be handled differently by different parishes and different bishops.
Once you are back in the Catholic Church, you can choose to formalize your transfer by applying for it through a canonical procedure, or just live out your life as a Greek Catholic.
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This exchange reminds me of an encounter I had at an Orthodox church very recently with a young Orthodox woman. We were both in the gift shop and I mentioned in the course of conversation that I happened to be a Roman Catholic, whereupon she revealed that she was once a Roman Catholic, too, but converted to the Orthodox Church because she preferred their worship and spirituality. She then remarked that the Orthodox liturgy must have seemed very different to me, coming from the Roman Catholic Church.
I responded that it was quite familiar, actually, on account of the fact that I have been attending the Byzantine Catholic liturgy instead of Mass for a few months now. She cocked her head to one side, completely puzzled by my response.
"What do you mean?" she asked. And I explained that I had been going to the Eastern liturgies at various Ukrainian Greek Catholic churches in the area.
Blank stare. She wasn't getting it. "Eastern Rite Catholicism as opposed to Roman Catholicism." She was still bewildered and asked me what that was like. "It's exactly the same as the liturgy that just took place, here." She shook her head. "OUR Liturgy?" she asked. "Yes." Still puzzled. "The Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom??? In a Catholic Church?"
She had never heard of Eastern Rite Catholicism before and was clearly astonished. I was actually quite surprised by her ignorance of the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church. An Orthodox guy also in the gift shop overhearing our discussion intervened to help explain to this poor, confused woman what I was trying to tell her, confirming what I was saying. "Their liturgy is exactly the same as ours. There's no difference. They have icons just like we do, iconostases, married priests, the whole nine yards..."
Then came a look over her face that seemed to say, "um...you mean I could have had all this without leaving the Catholic Church?"
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Then came a look over her face that seemed to say, "um...you mean I could have had all this without leaving the Catholic Church?" Understand that this would pertain only for the last couple of decades (or less, depending on the particular Eastern Catholic Church).
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Then came a look over her face that seemed to say, "um...you mean I could have had all this without leaving the Catholic Church?" Understand that this would pertain only for the last couple of decades (or less, depending on the particular Eastern Catholic Church). Of course a few decades ago, your local GOA church was more likely to use an organ during its liturgy, your local OCA priest less likely than today to be bearded, your local ROCOR priest more likely to wear a suit rather than a cassock, and a newly built Orthodox temple more likely to have pews.
Last edited by JBenedict; 08/21/12 06:09 PM.
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Hi, this is my first post here.
I used to be a Latin rite Catholic, or according to the Catholic Church one is always a Catholic even if one has left the church.
For the last two years I have been catechized by the Greek Orthodox Church in Greece, I have re learnt my faith from the ground up, The way I think, the way I pray, the way I worship, the way I read the Holy Scriptures has changed completely. I have learnt to love God from the heart, instead of head knowledge.
I am completely happy with what I have learnt and the way the Orthodox Church worships, But there is one problem !
I have this nagging voice in my heart telling me that this is the fullness of truth and faith, but it is telling me that The Orthodox Church and myself should be in communion with Rome.
There is no way I could return to the Latin Rite church, that would just turn everything That I do and have learnt upside down.
So I am confused about this, is it possible That I could return to Rome in the Greek Catholic Church, so to keep the eastern tradition close to my heart and be in communion with Rome.
That way I would be both Orthodox and Catholic as it was pre-schism.
I know there is a Greek Catholic Church the other side of the city that I could go to, If you believe that "The Orthodox Church and myself should be in communion with Rome," i.e. the bishop the Vatican conclave elects, regardless of his heresy or Orthodoxy (or lack thereof of "the fullness of truth and faith"), you never "left Rome" to have to return. No, you will not be "both Orthodox and Catholic as it was pre-schism." There is an Orthodox bishop, Bp. Siluan, in Rome who is in Catholic communion with the rest of the Orthodox. Your supreme pontiff Benedict XVI is not. As for "keep[ing] the eastern tradition close to [your] heart and be in communion with" your supreme pontiff, that's between you and him.
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Then came a look over her face that seemed to say, "um...you mean I could have had all this without leaving the Catholic Church?" Understand that this would pertain only for the last couple of decades (or less, depending on the particular Eastern Catholic Church). Of course a few decades ago, your local GOA church was more likely to use an organ during its liturgy, your local OCA priest less likely than today to be bearded, your local ROCOR priest more likely to wear a suit rather than a cassock, and a newly built Orthodox temple more likely to have pews. And this would be different from the typical "Eastern Catholic Church" church how? Except that the priest, then or now, would be nearly always be married? We bought a Lutheran Church, converted it to an Orthodox Temple, and tore out the pews (we mused about having a marhmallow roast with a bonfire in the yard, but decided to donate them to a Protestant church IIRC).
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Thank you for your advice, I have got the phone number and address of His [b]Excellency Dimitrios Salachas Exarch of Greece, Faithful of Eastern Rite (Byzantine)[/b]
I shall make an appointment with him and see what he says.
On a point of interest, all the Greek Orthodox churches and the Eastern Catholic churches have seating in them here in Athens.
Once again, Thanks for your advice.
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If you believe that "The Orthodox Church and myself should be in communion with Rome," i.e. the bishop the Vatican conclave elects, regardless of his heresy or Orthodoxy (or lack thereof of "the fullness of truth and faith"), you never "left Rome" to have to return.
No, you will not be "both Orthodox and Catholic as it was pre-schism." There is an Orthodox bishop, Bp. Siluan, in Rome who is in Catholic communion with the rest of the Orthodox. Your supreme pontiff Benedict XVI is not. As for "keep[ing] the eastern tradition close to [your] heart and be in communion with" your supreme pontiff, that's between you and him. That was a rather ugly and disrespectful response, and one that I don't think is in anyway constructive or helpful.
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If you believe that "The Orthodox Church and myself should be in communion with Rome," i.e. the bishop the Vatican conclave elects, regardless of his heresy or Orthodoxy (or lack thereof of "the fullness of truth and faith"), you never "left Rome" to have to return.
No, you will not be "both Orthodox and Catholic as it was pre-schism." There is an Orthodox bishop, Bp. Siluan, in Rome who is in Catholic communion with the rest of the Orthodox. Your supreme pontiff Benedict XVI is not. As for "keep[ing] the eastern tradition close to [your] heart and be in communion with" your supreme pontiff, that's between you and him. If it's been awhile, you might want to read this again: Who we arehttps://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/341916/Who%20we%20are#Post341916
Last edited by desertman; 08/22/12 09:21 AM.
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If you believe that "The Orthodox Church and myself should be in communion with Rome," i.e. the bishop the Vatican conclave elects, regardless of his heresy or Orthodoxy (or lack thereof of "the fullness of truth and faith"), you never "left Rome" to have to return.
No, you will not be "both Orthodox and Catholic as it was pre-schism." There is an Orthodox bishop, Bp. Siluan, in Rome who is in Catholic communion with the rest of the Orthodox. Your supreme pontiff Benedict XVI is not. As for "keep[ing] the eastern tradition close to [your] heart and be in communion with" your supreme pontiff, that's between you and him. That was a rather ugly and disrespectful response, and one that I don't think is in anyway constructive or helpful. Au contraire. What the OP posted, it seems that he did not become chrismated or otherwise received into the Church. As such, it is my understanding that he never left communion with your supreme pontiff Benedict XVI, hence would not have to be received "back." Nor, if he believes in Pastor Aeternus, should he leave, except maybe for those ecclesiastical communities that accept Vatican I but Vatican II. I do know that he has not left the Orthodox Church, as it seems he never entered it. The only issue would be if he had been received into the Catholic communion of the Orthodox Churches. In that case, according to the rules set up in the Vatican (I don't believe any of the non-Latin "sui juris churches" have the power to make up their own rules on such matters) he would be taken in by the "Greek Byzantine/Greek-Rite Catholic Church," the hierarchy set up by the Vatican to replace/convert the Ecumenical Patriarchate and the Church of Greece (the exarchate being built out of the Latin Patriarchate of Constantinople, the latter abolished in 1964, during the tenure of the last titular holder of the title of Latin Patriarch of Constantinople). We Orthodox, of course, have our own view of such things, but that would be of no interest to you, the OP or your Supreme Pontiff. According to the latter, the OP hasn't done anything to repent of.
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If you believe that "The Orthodox Church and myself should be in communion with Rome," i.e. the bishop the Vatican conclave elects, regardless of his heresy or Orthodoxy (or lack thereof of "the fullness of truth and faith"), you never "left Rome" to have to return.
No, you will not be "both Orthodox and Catholic as it was pre-schism." There is an Orthodox bishop, Bp. Siluan, in Rome who is in Catholic communion with the rest of the Orthodox. Your supreme pontiff Benedict XVI is not. As for "keep[ing] the eastern tradition close to [your] heart and be in communion with" your supreme pontiff, that's between you and him. If it's been awhile, you might want to read this again: Who we arehttps://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/341916/Who%20we%20are#Post341916No, it hasn't been awhile. The OP seemed to be under the impression that, according to his chosen faith, he had done something to repent of, and had to be "received back." It is my understanding, and, according to your link, he has not. One thing that is not addressed in the link is what has been suggested by others here: that the OP should remain in the "Latin sui juris church" but worship in the "Greek Byzantine/Greek-Rite Catholic Church."
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Should we call upon YOUR "Judge of the Universe" or THEIR "Prince Patriarch", or OUR "Supreme Pontiff" to sort this out respectfully?!
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Should we call upon YOUR "Judge of the Universe" or THEIR "Prince Patriarch", or OUR "Supreme Pontiff" to sort this out respectfully?! We don't have a supreme pontiff, the OP doesn't have a prince patriarch no matter where he goes in Athens, and our Judge of the Universe judges all-i.e. OUR, so no.
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