www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Legalism in the Roman Catholic Church

I'm a Latin rite catholic attending a Ruthenian church. I've met many protestant converts to catholicism there who object the tradition of "legalism" in the Roman Catholic church. Of course my bias is that the Orthodox have their head in the sand when it comes to using logic and reason at times. Can someone explain to me the problem of "legalism" in the Roman Church and why so many protestant converts object to it?

I'm more than a bit befuddled as to how you jumped from (1) the objections of Protestant converts (even those met in an EC church setting) to legalism in the RC Church to (2) your opinion that our Orthodox brethren have their heads in the sand when it comes to logic and reason

As regards why Protestant converts object to legalism in the Roman Church, you are pretty much asking the wrong audience here, if you are expecting any definitive answer. This is, as I just got done posting on another thread in this same forum, an Eastern and Oriental Christian forum.

While we have some members who are Protestant currently, or who formerly were Protestant, we really spend little time worrying about the legalism of the Latin Church except as regards how it affects or applies to the relationship of the Latin Church to Eastern Churches, Catholic and Orthodox. And it does.

While I'd never be so silly as to suggest that the opinion is unanimous (we here can probably all only agree on a few things - that we are of one opinion on the civil date for Christmas, perhaps), I suspect you'll find that a majority of Eastern Christians here, both Catholic and Orthodox, consider the Latin Church to be highly, even hyper-legalistic.

Many years,

Neil

RC's know it too. We just like it that way.

I think, HeavenlyBlack has been dealing with this, in his own situation. Not to derail your thread, but his threads are something you may want to take a peek at.

I know that the Romans were highly esteemed for their law system. I think this may have carried over from the Roman empire to the Latin Church. Anyways, I've literally have heard this from 4 different converts. I'd like to know how an Eastern Christian finds the Latin Church "legalistic". I know from my orthodox study bible that they (EO) reject the doctrine of transubstatiation. Also, when exactly does the bread and wine become the body and blood of our Lord during the Divine Liturgy? Is that legalistic?

Although, as Father Robert Taft has pointed out, the Russians can be just as legalistic as the Latins whose legalism they supposedly abhor.

Just look at the Sacramental Theology of the RCs to see how overly legalistic they are. Everything is a matter of law and rules. Kind of takes all the mystery out of the Mysteries.

That's certainly been changing over the decades since Vatican II, with the patristic renaissance and the breaking of the Thomistic stranglehold on Western theology. Even a return to Aquinas--as opposed to Aquinas' less talented and reflective expositors--is a return of the mysterion to Latin sacramental theology.

My experience tells me that the Orthodox have as many rules as the Latins. They are just not as explicit and one ignores them at the price of being scorned by Babushkas and Yiayias. The Latins carefully write them down and carefully ignore them.

The problem is, Protestants and the Orthodox take all those Latin rules at face value, and thus totally misunderstand Roman Catholicism.

The same could be said of a great many Roman Catholics.

I'm afraid Vatican II while it had the potential to be a patristic renaissance - has instead turned out to be nearly an abomination in liturgics.

I told my wife once that I was going to be like the guy in Animal House and break up a guitar to pieces at the next guitar Mass I go to and then just say "sorry"

Now you know how the Iconoclasts felt.

Actually there has been a great resurgence in Patristic scholarship in the west since Vatican II that has served the Church both east and west. As far as liturgics are concerned, I think time, talent and rubbing shoulders with the Orthodox may help the west, but it's no fault of the Council.

The situation before Vatican II was no better. Traditionalists need to come to grips with this truth. Acceptance is the first step towards healing.