www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall NUNS ON THE BUS

Maybe not entirely:

Democrats for Life [democratsforlife.org]

Actually, they didn't get to hold their meeting in the main hall, but in a smaller conference room.

Yeah, all the Pro-Life Democrats have turned Republican. The Dems we have now want to turn us into the Union of Soviet Socialist States of America. That's why I'm too afraid to even vote one left-winger into office anymore, because of what their sweet-talking and their real agenda would really mean. I dunno. Seems like it we want to see freedom in this country, and see us survive for at least another few years, I guess we all better be voting red and getting the GOP on top.

It is a very sad situation. My conscience would not permit me to vote for a democrat...even if an individual candidate preached solid Christian values. This is because the platform would be opposed to his stance. Theirs is a platform of abortion at will....gay "marriage"....insurance covered contraception. Theirs is a platform of division. They booed when the word "God" was restored. They do not hide their position any longer. They are diametrically opposed to every moral precept that I hold dear. Theirs is a party of evil. America better wake up!!!

Roman Interloper - If I make the list with all infractions - will you change your vote?

Will you vote for MY pro life candidate?

Here is a list of all Catholic Organizations who support Abortion

They all explicitly state in so many words and by their actions that it is OK as a catholic to be Pro Choice.

Call to Action
Catholics for Choice
Catholics for Equality
Dignity
New Ways Ministry
SNAP
Voice of the Faithful
Women Priests for the Catholic Church
Catholic Coalition for Church Reform
Catholics United
Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good
Corpus
Faith In Public Life
Matthew 25
National Catholic Reporter
NETWORK
Pax Christi

The trouble with the abortion "rights" issue is that they have very skillfully cast it as a "women's issue," such that it's hard to be opposed to abortion "rights" without appearing to be opposed to women.

What people fail to realize is that most women seeking an abortion are doing so because of coercion--real or perceived--from a man. This issue is never addressed.

Roman Interloper -

THE EASY WAY TO MAKE MY LIST.

It appears that ALL THE BISHOPS in the USCCB came to the conclusion that OBAMACARE was worthy of support.

The Bishops pushed hard for passage of Obamacare

http://the-american-catholic.com/2010/07/16/is-the-usccb-responsible-for-obamacare/

Let's not kid ourselves - Bishops are highly educated -- sophisticated in political positioning (otherwise how did they become Bishops) and were knowledgeable enough about the PRO ABORTION clauses and "deals to placate Catholics" that they included in their letter of support for Obamacare their reservations about Federal Funding for abortion.

In effect ALL THE BISHOPS made it OK for ALL CATHOLICS to support Obamacare knowing full well - that Obama and Pro Choice forces in congress and senate were going to include ABORTION.

The argument in support of the Bishops are "they did not know"
so why did they support OBAMACARE?
wHY NOT A STATEMENT THAT ABORTION IS SO OBJECTIONABLE TO CATHOLICS THAT THE BISHOPS COULD NOT SUPPORT OBAMACARE WITH ANY PROVISION FOR FEDERAL FUNDING OF ABORTION?

Instead - they pushed FOR Obamacare (you cannot tell me they did not know Obama and the Pro Choice lobby were pushing hard for abortion) and now OPPOSE OBAMACARE

"I voted for it ... before I opposed it"

This implicates ALL US BISHOPS as being responsible for Abortion coverage in Obamacare
(kind of like turning away from the plight of the JEWS in WWII Poland Germany and most of Western Europe and just remaining SILENT in order to keep their jobs)

Lie down with the dogs, wake up with fleas.

Probably. Not because of any list, however, but because I'm a pro-life Catholic Republican. Being a pro-life Catholic Republican, however, shouldn't oblige me to insist that everything the Democrats stand for is evil, or that the American bishops who have worked with Democrats to pass needed reform legislation are traitors, or that they are "supporters" of "abortionists".

Right?

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Pope Benedict certainly is not happy with Obama, especially, nor Pelosi, nor Reid. We need to make sure that they are either demoted (even though Pelosi already is demoted), or voted out completely, and we need to make sure that the Lord's Party in the Republicans will indeed bring more of the constitutional guarantees that will make us immune from any of what the liberal left is planning. The regime we have now would make the founding fathers roll in their graves to be sure. Not to mention that the chief justice, who is a Republican, stabbed this country in the back when he said Obamacare was constitutional... That shows you how fixed this country is anymore... We need a far bigger voice than ever before.

I'm not saying all the things Democrats stand for are bad.

In fact I believe in some of the things the EPA does
I like roads bridges freeways

I like parks

I like FAA rules to keep planes safe

I even like the TSA security checks which have been working

I like the Democrats working for the poor (I don't believe them when they say they are working for the poor but I like the focus)


I HATE ABORTION IN ANY FORM - I DO NOT LIKE MY CATHOLIC BROTHES AND SISTERS IN CHRIST TO SUPPORT ABORTION IN ANY FORM

I DON'T LIKE NUNS ENDORSING AN ABORTIONIST CANDIDATE - NOT ANYONE

I DON'T LIKE IT WHEN OUR BISHOPS FAIL TO TEACH AND PREACH THE GOSPEL OR HAVE THE COURAGE TO LEAD THEIR FLOCKS

I want to share with you an excerpt from "Subsidiarity, Solidarity, and the Lay Mission" article in the Madison (WI) Catholic Herald by Bishop Robert Morlino. The whole article is here
http://madisoncatholicherald.org/bishopscolumns/3366-bishop-column.html

The Bishop begins with Paul Ryan, moves to intrinsic evils, but moves on to the gray areas of Catholic conscience. This gray area is the subject of this post..

However, a conscience well-formed according to reason or the Catholic faith, must also make choices where intrinsic evil is not involved. How best to care for the poor is probably the finest current example of this, though another would be how best to create jobs at a time when so many are suffering from the ravages of unemployment. In matters such as these, where intrinsic evil is not involved, the rational principles of solidarity and subsidiarity come into play. The principle of solidarity, simply stated, means that every human being on the face of the earth is my brother and my sister, my “neighbor” in the biblical sense. At the same time, the time-tested best way for assisting our neighbors throughout the world should follow the principle of subsidiarity. That means the problem at hand should be addressed at the lowest level possible — that is, the level closest to the people in need. That again, is simply the law of human reason.

We can disagree on application
As one looks at issues such as the two mentioned above and seeks to apply the principles of solidarity and subsidiarity, Catholics and others of good will can arrive at different conclusions. These are conclusions about the best means to promote the preferential option for the poor, or the best means to reach a lower percentage of unemployment throughout our country. No one is contesting here anyone’s right to the basic needs of food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, etc. Nor is anyone contesting someone’s right to work and so provide for self and family. However there can be difference according to how best to follow the principles which the Church offers.

I think His Excellency stated this teaching well, in a way we don't normally hear this message. This next comment is one we must be cognizant of when we criticize bishops for not speaking out more forcefully:

Making decisions as to the best political strategies, the best policy means, to achieve a goal, is the mission of lay people, not bishops or priests.

In his article I especially like the term "ecology of human nature." This term gives a different meaning to the secular term of ecology, prioritizing humans over things. The full text of his article is important...the initial paragraphs come our strongly against abortion and for traditional marriage.

Fr Deacon Paul

In reply to no one in particular, but generally ...

As a Catholic romantic, I find the choice between a Protestant bourgeois party and a godless bourgeois party to be uninspiring.

Give me the Jacobites, or at least old-fashioned Catholic Action, and then I'll get excited.

Pardon me for saying it, but typing in caps does not justify your sweeping generalizations or correct the innacuracies inherent in your position.

For one thing, Catholics do not, if they are faithful Catholics, support abortion. Nevertheless, every Church (including the Catholic and Orthodox Churches) has members that do not adhere to orthodox teaching or abide by the principles of Christian morality. It should really go entirely without saying that the public disloyalties of dissident members of a Church should not be pinned on the hierarchy of that Church.

Secondly, the "Nuns on the Bus" did not endorse an "abortionist candidate". One single "nun on the bus" spoke at the Democratic National Convention (not at the Abortionist National Convention), and she did not endorse anybody. In any event, even if she had, the "Nuns on the Bus" are not the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church, and, as we are all quite aware, they most certainly do not speak for the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church; they speak only for themselves.

Finally, no faithful Catholic likes to behold the failures of the shepherds of the flock. And I'm sure the reverse is true, that it pains our shepherds to behold our many, many failings and disloyalties. But we are all human, and that's simply the way it goes with fallen human nature.

It's always painful to see an apostle who seems to completely lose his bearings and can no longer correctly transmit the message of Jesus Christ. It must have been painful for Jesus Christ to witness the betrayal of Judas the Apostle, or the denials of Peter the Apostle, or the incredulity of Thomas the Apostle, or the flight of the whole lot of them after his arrest. And these were the bishops hand-picked by Jesus, himself; they walked with him and touched him and ate with him and heard his voice and beheld his miracles! And still they fell.

Our bishops (in this country or any other) will not always be angels. If the original twelve who walked and talked with Jesus couldn't be, so much less so their successors 2000 years later in a world that bears no resemblance at all to the one which the original 12 knew.

All that having been said, however, the Catholic bishops in the United States can hardly be said to have failed in their duty with regard to making the teaching of the Church clear as regards abortion! Nobody wonders what side the official Catholic Church is on! I can assure you that Planned Parenthood and every feminist in America knows that the Catholic bishops do not take their side regarding so-called "reproductive rights". The strong public stance of the Catholic bishops in the United States against the unjust HHS mandate has rung out like thunder across the land, and no one is at all confused as to what our bishops think about it.

And as far as the "nuns on a bus" go, be aware that for every Sister Campbell in America, there is also a Mother Angelica. In fact, there are probably 5 or ten orthodox nuns to every heterodox nun in America. The "nuns on the bus" are not representative of the mainstream of the official Church, and they certainly do not speak with the voice of the hierarchy.

The equation "Nuns on a Bus" + speech against Paul Ryan's budget proposals at the Democratic National Convention = Catholic bishops do not have the courage to lead their flocks is a preposterously illogical equation, indeed.