www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Is Christianity today too sanitized and rigid?

I feel some serious cognitive dissonance when I read the Bible, or even about our history and the saints, and then look around me at our current subculture. Something is just wrong here, but at the same time I keep telling myself that maybe I'm just trying to excuse myself for sins. But I've tried to squeaky myself up and it gave me a breakdown. Why do I have to feel like a freak for not being churchy? I mean, I'm at the point where I'm beginning to re-understand that whole Protestant "I'm spiritual but not religious" thing, if by religious they mean moralism and its attendant squeaky cleanness or Pharisaical nature. If these types knew the terms of theology then they'd probably say "Semi-Pelagian" and not "religious". And I think us Catholics have massively dropped the ball on that. How many Catholics would answer "I'm a good person" to the question "Why do you think you'll go to Heaven?" Morality is a living thing, but when a convert like me comes into the Church and immediately smacks headlong into moralistic "You must be this conservative/attend this mass/hate these people/dress like this/listen to this/be extroverted/be a heart person/be sentimental/stay silent about theology/be all American/be suburban in manners" and so on it makes the Protestants look right. What ever happened to inner transformation? What happened to sincerity and strength? While we're at it, where'd our arts go? Where's the grit? I swear moralism is swallowing us alive.

I may not have the necessary amount of time to sufficiently address this, during my lunch break. But, I just want to let you know, I'm thinking about this dilemma, as I think it's very important. I've come across this in this one's group - for which, I recently signed on - evangelisation effort(s). I'm coming across a similar mentality among predominantly Latin minded Latin rite Catholics. More later. But, I also want to see what others have to say on this matter, too.

I don't know where you're going to church, but I would suggest to get away from the snarkiness, until you've built things up within yourself where you'll be able to live with what you're describing. I would leave that situation, if it was up to me, totally.

The real problem is people thinking the objective of Christianity is "to get into heaven".

I strongly recommend that you stop paying attention to Christianity today.

I echo the previous sentiments. Particularly, the trying to get into heavy aspect, Stuart so directly pointed out. I think many of the laity, take the codification of canon law too seriously; and it has created a balance sheet mentality, with respect to sin, and salvation.

My favorite line espoused by the evangelization group's proverbial head is "missing mass is a mortal sin, needing to be confessed... If you get hit by a bus tomorrow...yada yada."

HB,

It sounds to me as if you're just starting to become aware of the gap (chasm?) that exists between a genuine biblical world view and the world view of contemporary Christians. In many ways we're amazingly like Israel in Our Lord's time--all hung up on externals and unable to judge adequately between what's truly important, what's secondary and what's really not important at all. Once you understand this, it's a lot less confusing.

You have my sympathy. "Been there, done that."

That reminds me of a Catholic pamphlet I remember seeing (right about the time when I was starting to appreciate such things) entitled "The Key to Heaven." It listed several time-honored Catholic devotions and practices, but said nothing at all about the fact that *none* of these actions earns our way into heaven, and that at the end of the day, it is still the Blood of Christ alone that pays the price for our sins.

I think your heightened awareness of these things may actually be an indication that you're starting to experience "inner transformation." You now see all this shallowness for what it is, and it's bothering you. Believe it or not, that's good! You're also sharing in Our Lord's sorrow over these things.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Welcome to the struggle for what it really means to attain holiness. Deacon Richard gave you some very sage advice and it's a good reminder for all of us.

May I add that "holiness"--what St. Seraphim of Sarov calls "the acquisition of the Holy Spirit of God"--is a process, not an end. And for all the things that people have dumped on you--remember that these are MEANS, not the END. The "end" is to build our relationship with Christ. The reason that you may find all these things that people have tried to thrust on you is that they are not the "fit" for you. There are all kinds of ways to build our relationship with Christ. And some of the really "churchy" things can actually be a turn-off when put forward as "have to" things.

I don't fit the mold of a Latin Catholic. I use almost no Latin devotional practices in my pilgrimage. Long ago I adopted a very Byzantine practice--my prayer rule, for example. It "speaks" to me in a way that no Latin practices do. And while many don't understand how I have gotten to where I am, many of my fellow parishioners rely on me for spiritual guidance. My spiritual father once told me he thought he'd learned as much from me as I from him. Whatever. I don't let it go to my head--I'm still not convinced that I've ever BEGUN to live the Christian life.

Some of the biggest areas of "cognitive dissonance" that I have encountered in my walk are

1. "You don't have to do that." The idea that there is some minimum one needs to do an no more. What's a love affair about if you only give a kiss on the cheek? Don't you want to go whole hog? How else are you to love the Lord your God with your whole heart, soul, mind, and strength?
2. Every relationship is different. My relationship with the Lord will be somewhat different from yours because of different gifts, different amounts of grace, different other things. But it'll all be within the same Faith once given to the Apostles. We all perceive slightly differntly and so will approach the Mystery from within our own perceptions, but we struggle together to get it right.
3. "We all get to Heaven anyway." Boy, oh boy--the biggest error of the 20th century IMHO--and probably of the last 2000+ years. If you don't already experience a little Heaven in your being right now, you've missed the point. Heaven is also about relationship--listne to the Lord speaking to you in the depths fo your being. That's what got you to be a convert in the first place. Don't crowd out that still, small voice with so many practices that it's overwhelmed.

Ultimately, you will have to do what I do and what every other person in the Church does. At some point, you have to take what you've learned and sit silently before your God, wondering if He's there, wondering if He cares, wondering if He hears you at all, just wondering . . . I'm praying; I'm struggling; I'm trying to get it right--is anyone out there?

It's the struggle. It's the pain in the heart that really hurts. But as St. Peter put it, "Lord, where are we to go? You alone have the words of everlasting life." In the process, don't let the legalists weigh you down with all these things that can make you burn out. The Christian life is not an insurance policy where you use these many activities as premiums. And it's not about making you so paranoid that you don't enjoy the fact--right now--that God loves you from all eternity, unconditionally.

May I offer you once last thing that has helped me. One of the Desert Fathers, when asked what a man should do, replied "Whatever you find that your heart desires in following God, that do, and be at peace." In other words, find the methods (practices) that seem to fit--in consultation with your spiritual father--and be at peace. (And let no one else disturb that peace.)

Bob

Every struggle in the soul's training, whether physical or mental, that is not accompanied by suffering, that does not require the utmost effort, will bear no fruit. 'The kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force' (Matt. 11:12). Many people have worked and continue to work without pain, but because of its absence they are strangers to purity and out of communion with the Holy Spirit, because they have turned aside from the severity of suffering. Those who work feebly and carelessly may go through the movements of making great efforts, but they harvest no fruit, because they undergo no suffering.

St. Theophan the Recluse

To the last three posters, especially, thanks for the insights provided.

To the last three posters, especially, thanks for the insights provided.

Yes, I find myself altogether too familiar with this part, I'm afraid. The more I try to learn and figure it all out and the more I ask for help and understanding and peace, the more bewildered (there's that word again) I become, it seems.

It's confusing to learn through reading Church history that my sins would have had me excommunicated in sackcloth and ashes until the day I died in the early Church, but in today's church, the same sins will earn you a penance of ten Hail Marys and the advice "don't be discouraged, God loves you...keep trying, don't give up, and if you should fall again, come back to the Sacrament right away."

Is the Church of today perhaps more understanding of and compassionate toward sinners today and more interested in offering positive encouragement and frequent Sacraments as the cure (as opposed to lifelong excommunication) because God, Himself, recognizes that Christians caught in this wildly modern modern world of ours are at a much, much, greater disadvantage than Christians of earlier, godlier times? I wonder if earlier Christians must not have been much more keenly "plugged in" to the Holy Spirit for the Church to have had that "two strikes and you're out" policy that it once had.


Yes, but what's it all about to come away with that frustrated response "well, where else are we supposed to go?"

I often wonder why the need for the obstacle course of Earth, to begin with. We're just small, inept nothings made out of dust. Few of us are geniuses and theologians, and even they can't figure it all out. I often just sit in a chapel before the Lord and sigh my pathetic prayer, "you know what, You're an infinite God...and we're just nothings that You made out of dust. What, really, do you expect from us?"

And then I hear nothing in response...as usual. I'm always mystified by these chipper, happy apologists on Catholic radio who are ever so glad of this or that devotion and who are constantly saying, "the Lord spoke to me about..." or "then the Lord told me that I needed to..." Really? He did? I have never in my life so clearly heard the voice of God telling me to do something that I could subsequently form the sentence, "and so the Lord spoke to me and told me to..." Is it just me? Am I the only Catholic to whom God isn't speaking to directly every day, and who isn't having all of his decisions in life made for him directly from on High?

As far as the difference between the early Church and today's Church, I can only hope that today's Church has it right...because if God, in spite of His Church, is still using the older system...then who do we pray to if even Heaven won't help us?

Brother RI, I'll pray for any underlying hardness of heart preventing from you hearing God's voice. God speaks to people, in different ways. I know, for myself, God uses people I talk to: friends, acquaintances, etc. to communicate to me. A friend said to me straight up, not ask: "You should go to the priesthood." I was only looking at possible Lector work, and an outlying cantor shot. But, these people have said the priesthood, not those.

I got the word catholic, over and over again, when I signed onto a Buddhist group, whose practices were head scratching, to say the least.

I do believe there's no such thing as coincidence. Those girls who came up to me said the words they said, for a reason, when they asked if I needed help washing my folks' cars. They simply said they went to Catholic school and told to help others.

I don't know about you, but I tend to shy away from Catholic radio, as it seems to have take on too much of a social activist vibe (at least from what I've gathered via the iCatholic Radio application).

I listen primarily to Ancient Faith Radio. The music, and talk series have been fruitful. Maybe taking a look at the content it provides, as a means of hope.

RI:

I'm always ready to test the spirit(s) of those who make those claims. Maybe that's why I avoid listening to them.

One of the way that I've found the Good Lord speaking to me is in reading the Scripture. One way that was proposed to me at one time I always go back to. Close your eyes, flip through the pages of the New Testament and put your finger down. Open your eyes and listen to what the Lord is saying to you in the moment. Now it may be nothing like what you want to hear. But that's the point. Hearing and listening are two vastly different things. The phrase "Be still and know that I am God" ought to ring deep in your being. Just sit still and listen. Sometimes the fact that there is no word, no voice, no (seemingly) nothing is just the point. We need to have stillness in this fast-paced, noisy world. Remember the Old Testament story about the wind and the fire and then then "still, small voice"? The Lord waits until He has our full attention. And then He gives us a nibble that we can handle. He knows what we need before we need it and He knows when we ask for things that are actually not good for us, even when we're absolutely sure that they are.

There is a story from the life of the Cure of Ars. There was an old man who used to sit in the back of the church for a period each day and didn't appear to pray. He just stared at the altar and the tabernacle. The Cure once asked him what he was doing and the man said, "I look at Him and He looks at me." Apparently that was enough for him. I sometimes take a time like that and come away more refreshed in spirit than a long litany or prayer period.

Or take the advice my spiritual father once gave me. "Quit trying so hard. You can't force a relationship with anyone else. Why would you think you could force the Lord?"

Bob

Bob, great advice!

RI:

Christ is in our midst!!

Let me give you an example of the Lord speaking to me.

Many years ago I found a prayer that I eventually learned originated at the Optina Monastery in Russia and is usually attributed to Metropolitan Philaret of Moscow (19th century).



I prayed it for about 20 years until I finally understood what the last line meant. In the meantime, I'd read "Beginning to Pray," by Metropolitan Anthony. His Eminence said that we ought to discipline ourselves in prayer and that we ought to do so over a long period of time so that the prayer(s) would become our own--that they would no longer be a formula but part of who we are and how we are relating to the Lord. As a language teacher by training, I was always trying to translate the words into more modern English to better understand what the Holy Spirit had put into the heart of the one who'd originally prayed it, but this last line just wouldn't respond: trying to modernize it left it wooden and lifeless compared to the Elizabethan English I'd found it in. Finally one day while reading another work on prayer, it occurred to me that the last line meant "Lord Jesus, make my prayer be nothing more and nothing less than Your own pure prayer offered to the Father in and through me." I sat stunned. It had taken 20 years for that little bit to become clear. And, trust me, it isn't my intellect that did it or my study, or me. It was a direct gift and I was--apparently--ready for it.

Recently I asked a brother on this board about the Russian word that stood for "visit." After all, I told him that I didn't want the Lord to "visit me"--a visit is like a weekend, here and over in a flash. I thought something more along the lines of "stay with me" would be appropriate since I could use that rather than a quick "hello" and "adios." (I need more help in my walk than you might so I'm not ashamed to say "stick around, Lord.") He told me that the literal translation was visit, but that the Russian was more of "make Thy Presence known within me." In other words, make me aware that you're way down there deep in my being where we can really get to know each other. And that He's not upset with all the junk that's in there--the baggage we all carry and hide deep within that keeps us from really growing spiritually. This, too, is a gift from the Good Lord in and through that brother. We've got to be listening and discerning where the Voice might be speaking--often in places and from people we aren't expecting.

Thank God for that brother, the gift from God that he is. Thank God that He send me through other places to get me ready to understand. Just plain, thank God for all the good things He has poured out on me and so many others.

Bob