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#386437 09/22/12 12:09 AM
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Question: if a canonically Latin Catholic began to regularly attend a Byzantine parish on Sundays, on major feasts, and during special Lenten celebrations, would it be an issue if this Catholic still attended daily Mass, as was already his custom, in the Roman Rite throughout the rest of the week?

Despite the validity of attending and receiving Holy Communion in another sui iuris Church, is it not a problem to do so regularly, where one is caught between two different, though complementary, liturgical lives, with different spirits? I'd be quite interested to hear the opinion of clergy above all else; I am curious if the concern this may lead to a sort of liturgical schizophrenia, or a failure to fully enter into the liturgical life of one Church or the other, is legitimate.

Last edited by Totus Tuus; 09/22/12 12:15 AM.
Totus Tuus #386441 09/22/12 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Totus Tuus
Question: if a canonically Latin Catholic began to regularly attend a Byzantine parish on Sundays, on major feasts, and during special Lenten celebrations, would it be an issue if this Catholic still attended daily Mass, as was already his custom, in the Roman Rite throughout the rest of the week?

Despite the validity of attending and receiving Holy Communion in another sui iuris Church, is it not a problem to do so regularly, where one is caught between two different, though complementary, liturgical lives, with different spirits? I'd be quite interested to hear the opinion of clergy above all else; I am curious if the concern this may lead to a sort of liturgical schizophrenia, or a failure to fully enter into the liturgical life of one Church or the other, is legitimate.

quick answer: should be fine. I tend to find the daily mass calls greater attention to certain feasts, as opposed to going to Sunday Mass, only.

Totus Tuus #386442 09/22/12 08:27 AM
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This is true. Now Holy Days of Obligation will differ between the two Rites, too...that you may need to be careful of, because there are different Holy Days and Feast Days celebrated in the Byzantine Rite than there are in the Latin Rite, except for the big ones like the Dormition/Assumption, Christmas, Easter, Immaculate Conception, Ascension (even though Ascension in the Latin Rite is celebrated on the Sunday after that Thursday, especially in the Diocese of Cleveland), and stuff like that. However, there are different holy days like the one that they just had, the Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross, then you had the Nativity of the Theotokos, now these are mainly Eastern Rite holy days or feast days, but they should be noted if you plan to celebrate these days outside of your own tradition, that it is perfectly safe to do so (or at least I think it is).

Although I can't remember off hand which Byzantine Holy Days of Obligation are different from the ones in the Latin Church. Since our family was raised in the Roman Rite, it can be confusing to know which holy days belong to the Eastern Rite.

Last edited by 8IronBob; 09/22/12 08:33 AM.
Totus Tuus #386446 09/22/12 10:17 AM
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The Immaculate Conception is not great feast day in the Byzantine Catholic Churches at all. The feast, the Conception of St. Ann when she conceived the All-holy Thetokos, is commemorated on December 9 (not 8) and is a relatively minor feast. I believe the Ukrainian Catholics transferred the feast to the 8th with a new office based on Roman ideas with the original texts as the Forefeast. Ah! The joys of being colonized!

Totus Tuus #386447 09/22/12 10:31 AM
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I'm trying to remember how it was all calculated. My OCA friend told me it was done almost perfectly to space the nativities of Christ, the Theotokos, and the St. John the Forerunner, among each other.

Lester S #386458 09/22/12 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Lester S
I'm trying to remember how it was all calculated. My OCA friend told me it was done almost perfectly to space the nativities of Christ, the Theotokos, and the St. John the Forerunner, among each other.

This is what I was told:

Assuming the human gestation period is 9 months, as is commonly mentioned:

Christ is the perfect birth - Conception March 25; birth Dec 25
John the baptist - Conception Sept 23; Birth June 26 (imperfect)
Mary of Joseph - Conception Dec 9; birth Sept 8 (imperfect)

So the Conception of the Theotokos SHOULD be Dec 9, not Dec 8, for only One is perfect. I don't know how the Romans got it wrong (yes, I'm BC.)


Totus Tuus #386459 09/22/12 09:10 PM
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Well, from this website, here is the 2013 Calendar with all the feast and holy days throughout the year:

https://www.byzcath.org/index.php/resources-mainmenu-63/2013-liturgical-calendar

Now here's the Roman Holy Day of Obligation/Feast Day Calendar:

http://catholicism.about.com/od/holydaysandholidays/a/2013_Lit_Cal.htm

Here you can see which days to attend Feast Days in the Eastern Rite, and which days to attend in the Latin Rite... Hope these links help.

Lester S #386610 09/27/12 12:25 PM
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I am Ukrainian Catholic and my wife is Roman Catholic. I attend Saturday Vigil liturgies and Roman Catholic Holyday liturgies with her on most occasions. I also attend Sunday divine liturgies at the nearest Byzantine Catholic church, which is 65 miles from where we live. I attend mass on Byzantine holydays at a local Roman Catholic Church even if the Roman Catholics do not recognize the Byzantine feast. It works for me.

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Quote
I believe the Ukrainian Catholics transferred the feast to the 8th with a new office based on Roman ideas with the original texts as the Forefeast. Ah! The joys of being colonized!

That is no longer the case in the US.
Quote
NOTICE
This notice is written to remind the clergy and faithful that the Holy Day of the Conception of St. Anne is celebrated on 9 December. It is not a Holy Day of Obligation. By decree of the Ukrainian Bishops of the Metropolitan Province of Philadelphia on 30 November, 2006 this Holy Day has been re-appointed to its original celebration.

Diak #386617 09/27/12 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Diak
Quote
I believe the Ukrainian Catholics transferred the feast to the 8th with a new office based on Roman ideas with the original texts as the Forefeast. Ah! The joys of being colonized!

That is no longer the case in the US.
Quote
NOTICE
This notice is written to remind the clergy and faithful that the Holy Day of the Conception of St. Anne is celebrated on 9 December. It is not a Holy Day of Obligation. By decree of the Ukrainian Bishops of the Metropolitan Province of Philadelphia on 30 November, 2006 this Holy Day has been re-appointed to its original celebration.


Nor in Canada. Although there is a clause in the Anthology that says that it is permissible to celebrate it on the 8th for the sake of a common celebration with our RC brethren. I guess it would make sense if it is also a civic holiday.

ConstantineTG #386621 09/27/12 03:57 PM
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I think that note is included in the Anthology because Dec. 8th is the national patronal feast day of the U.S., and there may be some concelebrations with the Latins on that day.

Totus Tuus #386665 09/28/12 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Totus Tuus
Question: if a canonically Latin Catholic began to regularly attend a Byzantine parish on Sundays, on major feasts, and during special Lenten celebrations, would it be an issue if this Catholic still attended daily Mass, as was already his custom, in the Roman Rite throughout the rest of the week?

Despite the validity of attending and receiving Holy Communion in another sui iuris Church, is it not a problem to do so regularly, where one is caught between two different, though complementary, liturgical lives, with different spirits? I'd be quite interested to hear the opinion of clergy above all else; I am curious if the concern this may lead to a sort of liturgical schizophrenia, or a failure to fully enter into the liturgical life of one Church or the other, is legitimate.

I attend the Mass of the Roman Rite during the week (either at a Carmelite Monastery in the morning or at a Jesuit priory in the evening). On Sundays I usually attend the Divine Liturgy at any one of a number of Greek Catholic churches nearby. Some Sundays, however, I enjoy attending the Liturgy at one of several nearby Orthodox churches, in which case I fulfil my obligation at a Vigil Mass on Saturday evening.

Additionally, I enjoy attending some of the evening services that certain Orthodox churches have (such as Vespers or Akathist) on certain nights of the week, and I also enjoy going to Benediction or adoration at nearby Roman Catholic Churches. In private, I pray either the Roman Catholic hours, or the Orthodox hours, at my preference.

Far from feeling in any way schizophrenic, I find that enriching myself with the liturgies and prayers of both the East and the West fills me with a more global sense of the Church and therefore enables me to cherish the legitimate differences amongst Christians of different cultures, backgrounds, and traditions. It's an approach that has broken down alot of barriers for me...barriers erected in my former experiences with Roman Catholics of a certain..."neocon" milieu (if I may so express myself).

At one point I imagined I might "move East", so to speak, altogether. But now it seems to me that to insist upon one or the other while excluding one or another is unnecessary...and unwise. The saying, "it's all good" really does have meaning, with respect to all the various beautiful liturgical and spiritual traditions in our worldwide holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. I'm delighted to be able to enjoy and appreciate all of it without any scruple that it need be either 100 percent one way or 100 percent the other. There may be those reading this who will say that it's wrong. I peacefully disagree with them.

Totus Tuus #386690 09/29/12 11:15 AM
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Well, what I've been doing is attend maybe a couple of Divine Liturgies a month, while attending Mass in the Roman Church the rest of the month. This way, I can remain an active parishioner in the Rite that I'm born, baptized, confirmed, and given my sacraments in, while, at the same time, not ruling out worship and the traditions of the other Rite, either, and getting both sides of the Gospel and God's message. Also, learning which Feasts of Solemnity/Holy Days of Obligations are different between the two Rites wouldn't hurt, either. That way I can attend vigils of those Feasts of the Eastern Rite (because the Feast/Holy Day liturgies on the days themselves are in the morning when I'm at work, which is usually no good). Then I'll attend the afternoon or evening Masses of the Latin Rite feasts. It's a good way to split the difference.


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