www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Why we need English

Well, the way things are in other parts of Europe, like Greece with their debt crisis, and their riots all over, especially, I'm pretty sure you might see another surge of them coming to this country. So I'm pretty sure the Greek Orthodox will no doubt keep their native language in at least one or two Liturgies in anticipation for new immigrants from there.

I seriously doubt that any Greeks will come here. The solvent and ambitious ones will probably head for Scandinavia or Latin America. But an increasing number of Greek Orthodox priests here in the States are becoming more and more vocal about the necessity of celebrating primarily in English.

If we did that in my parish, there wouldn't be enough Ruthenians left to keep the original parish going . . .

hawk

True dat. Although with the amount of Ukrainians that live here, and continue to come here, I'm pretty sure that these will remain ethnic parishes for a good amount of time to come, but some, especially the Ukrainian Cathedrals, will be fair to those that want to experience the DLs, even if they aren't Ukrainian, and have one or two DLs in English every weekend, too, alongside the Ukrainian DLs. However, you're right about the Ruthenian Churches, most are either bilingual, or all English at this point.

The problem with Ethnic parishes is they put love of ethnicity/culture on the same level as love of God. We should realize that the parishes should be open to all, and also open to the next generation who will be more American or Canadian. Unfortunately, people don't realize this yet, even if their church buildings are half empty.

Not to mention all the retranslations/revisions of those Divine Liturgies, such as the Ruthenian Byzantine, as well as the Roman Missal. In fact, I'm kind of disappointed about how St. Josaphat went about the English DL. They recite half the Liturgy, and they don't use incense, unlike the days when Bishop Moskal and Fr. Gribik were running the Cathedral. Seems like things have really changed for the more "Latinized" under Bishop Bura and Frs. Bohdan and Claudio. There's a reason why St. Josaphat's English DLs have turned into almost a ghost town.

English *is* formally the liturgical language of the Sui Juris Metropolia of Pittsburgh (or whatever it is that we're called this week :))

hawk

I have attended parishes that the Divine Liturgy was served only in English, mixed Greek and English, and all in Ukrainian or Old Slavonic.

Of all of them the Ruthenian Greek Catholic parish, that I have attended now for going on three plus years, has had the most young families, young adults, and has had visitors from the outside come and stay the most. I really do think this is due in part because of the services being English only. (sometimes we sing an Old Slavonic hymn)

I know for a fact it has helped my spiritual life dramatically having all the services in my native language.

I actually sat through a 17-episode series "From the Desert," featuring two Coptic monks just talking "shop." They covered a variety of topics. One of those topics was on preserving heritage, and language, which I found interesting. One of the monks is an Australian (who's also featured on the film, the Last Anchorite) who mentioned he didn't care too much about translation. But, if he did, he'd translate it on his own.

It is in part because of English. In my parish we get some people coming over to join at different times of the year. Over the summer we switch to one bilingual Liturgy (which means it's like 70% Ukrainian since they dominate). That is when certain people leave and never to be seen again.

As His Beatitude +Sviatoslav said, the most vibrant parishes he had in Argentina were Spanish speaking parishes. It is already a tall order to get people to church on Sundays, and you expect them to adopt a whole new language and a whole new culture?

I know that the Ruthenian BCC I usually attend, the priest there usually likes going bilingual sometimes, where he will have most of the DL in English, but will have a few Old Slavonic blurbs thrown in from time to time. Also, when the choir is called in, then there might be the priest praying in English, while the choir responds in Church Slavonic. So there's all sorts of scenarios there, so I get where you're going there, Nelson.

8IronBob

What on earth are you meaning in this phrase ?

I really wonder if this is the best way to refer to text from the Liturgy.

I meant that there are times when he will say part of the Divine Liturgy in Slavonic, and expect a Slavonic response from the Cantor and the Congregation during certain parts, like the "Holy, Holy, Holy" or the Our Father, or along those lines.

I think my understanding of blurb is very similar to

1) This [en.wikipedia.org]

or

2) This [thefreedictionary.com]

or of course

3) beloved by some photographers [blurb.com]

For goodness sake - people who know nothing about the East lurk here and you refer to responses to the Liturgy in such a casual way.

What Iron Bob called a blurb is more properly the "ekphonesis", which is Greek for "blurb".






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