www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Hello New Friends!

I hope I'm not breaking any rules. I've been lurking for a few days. Not finding answers, I thought I'd post an introduction and ask those of you who know.

Thank you in advance.

I am Latin Rite. A professed terciary Franciscan. Hence the letters after my name. I have loved the Byzantine Church ever since a friend of mine took me to Our Lady of Fatima in San Francisco. Now I am in Las Vegas. Churches here are cold and sterile, with rock music so loud I leave the church with my ears ringing.

I finally found a church I can call home. It is Byzantine. Our Lady of Widsom. I really need a coach. And recommendations on some books. As a professed Franciscan I am obligated to daily prayer. I have considered changing to Byzantine prayers. I see a few books out. But am not sure what to buy. While Catholicism for Dummies is a good book on the Latin Rite - I am not finding a Byzantine Catholicism for Dummies.

HELP!

Peace and All Good!

MaxMarieOFS:

Christ is in our midst!!

Welcome to the forum. I'm not sure we can help you because your situation seems a bit more complicated since you have revealed that you are professed as a terciary Franciscan. It seems to me that the first place you need to turn is to your superior(s) and ask them for direction(s).

I'm sure that if you are professed that you have a spiritual father/director that you communicate with on a regular basis. He might be your first stop.

Again, welcome to the forum.

Bob
Moderator

I just want help at church. I really want to embrace the Byzantine Church. I am so happy there after 4 years of being unhappy at various other churches in Vegas.

Things like, during the kiss of peace. People hug you and say Christ is with us. And I reply? er? He is and always will be?

I would like help understanding what is going on. I've been looking for books but am uncertain of what to buy. I just read one by Fr. Raya and finally understand why people have been telling me for 10 years that my spirituality is decidedly Eastern.

Which would be better? Byzantine Daily Prayer or Let Us Pray? I love the idea of pocket books. But I don't want to short change myself.

As it is, I am alone out here. My spiritual director passed away last December. There is one Franciscan friar here in Vegas. He works for the bishop and has no time. He advised me to jump ship for the Carmelites. Who I just discovered meet at Our Lady of Wisdom. The fraternity here is at odds with itself. So I have not transfered. I am an "excused" member of my fraternity in the Bay Area.

Hi MaxMarieOFS,

I am pretty sure that there are Byzantine-rite Franciscans in the U.S. that you can get in touch with.

There is one in Australia (biritual), but he travels a lot. His name is Fr. Chris Gardiner OFM. Let me see if I can get his details off the Friary here in Melbourne.

Just for the record, I'm wondering how many Benedictines are involved with Eastern Rite traditions. That should be an interesting one to answer, too.

MaxMarieOFS:

Christ is in our midst!!

It seems to me that you simply need to go see the pastor of the church you are attending and lay this at his feet. No one needs to be alone. I once heard that an isolated Christian is a paralyzed Christian. We need community to thrive.

May the Good Lord lead you to where He wants you to be.

Bob

Slava Isusu Christu!!!!
Slava Naviki

Max,
Welcome to the forum. Please contact the Byzantine Fransiscans at Holy Dormition Monastery in Sybertsville, PA. They have a Secular Fransciscan group. Fr. Paul Guthrie, ofm of Blessed memory had indicated so. You will have to do an internet search to get their contact info. That would be your best way to acquire the information you are seeking. Good luck.
Clem

As far as immediate guides go, these books on Amazon look alright:

http://www.amazon.com/Attend-Journey-Through-Orthodox-Liturgy/dp/188821287X

But there are also some online guides that, together, may answer your practical questions.

See, for example:

A Visitor's Guide to the Divine Liturgy [holy-trinity-church.org]

and, while less detailed, the comments of

Frederica Mathews-Greene [frederica.com]

Thank you one and all!

I think I haven't quite explained myself correctly. This isn't about me being a Franciscan. I am aware of Holy Dormitian's terciary Franciscans. I'm fairly certain there are others as well. I just threw that out there so folks wouldn't think I am a nun due to the letters after my name.

8IronBob, there are a lot of terciaries of various rites in the Eastern Church. I know of Franciscans and Carmelites. I have not yet stumbled across Augustinians, or Minims. Technically, the Benedictines do not have a third order. They have oblates. Latin for offering. Lay people attached to a monastery. Oblates far out-number most if not all third orders as it is easier to simply align one's self with a monastery, rather than go through years of formation. Also easier to get out.

At this point, I am not looking to change rites or fraternities. I just want to enjoy and deeply understand the Divine Liturgy. I want to swim in it til I'm all pruney! Is that even a word?

Slavophile, thank you for these links. May I have more!??

Several good books are discussed in this thread on the Forum:


www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/322917/ [byzcath.org]


I have read the books by Fr. Appleyard and Fr. Cross and found both of them to be helpful

I second the recommendation that you go discuss this with the pastor of your church, who may be able to help you find something that meets your needs very quickly. I don't know which particular church your parish belongs to, but in the UGCC we have the Anthology, which contains the texts and music for the Divine Liturgy as well as a section on daily prayers, an examination of conscience, the first, third, sixth, and ninth hours (about 30 pages, nothing as complex as the LOTH but still very good), and about a thousand pages more. I'm sure your pastor will be able to direct you to something similar, which will help you at least begin the transition.

Also (and I by no means want to derail the thread with this), but I want to clarify that while it is true that the Benedictines don't have a third order, they also technically don't have a first or second order either. The first Benedictine communities predate the concept of religious orders in the Roman Catholic Church, and therefore each Benedictine monastery contains an autonomous and independent monastic community. It's difficult sometimes because they use the term the "Order of St. Benedict" but they are not technically an order like the Franciscans.

I say this all because I respectfully disagree that lay people choose Benedictine life because it's "easier" than joining a third order. I suspect most oblates would say they joined the Benedictine family because they felt a particular call to Benedictine spirituality and wished to deepen their faith and enrich their lives by following, as closely as practical, the Rule of St. Benedict.

To become an oblate, there is usually an initial period of discernment, followed by formal investiture in the oblate novitiate, which begins a formation period that varies from monastery to monastery (usually 1-5 years in length), and culminates (if the director of formation and the novice agree) in a final Act of Oblation, which is a formal and livelong commitment to a single monastic community. Oblates who, for spiritual or other reasons, later feel they would be better served by being an oblate with a different Benedictine monastery, may request a transfer as you indicated, but it has to be approved by the superiors in both communities and it doesn't happen very often. The decision to accept a particular oblate is also a significant commitment to the monastic community, which also enters into a lifelong commitment with each oblate they accept. This sometimes goes so far as entitling the oblate to be buried in the monastery graveyard upon repose.

Dear Two Lungs, Thank you! This is great!

Dear Garinion,

I gather from the length of your post that I have insulted you. I am sorry. It was not my intent. In my defense you have taken what I said the wrong way.

My long time friend Fr. Marty, OSB, concelebrated at the mass of my profession as a Franciscan. I have spent a lot of time at the priory. Infact, Fr. Egon, OSB was the first to tell me my spirituality is "decidedly eastern." I am just now beginning to understand. I know quite a bit about the Benedictines.

I was merely offering up that there is a difference between a member of a third order and an oblate.

Please don't twist my words. I never said people **chose** the Benedictines because they are easier to join. Never said it. If it came across as implied, then I apologize again. That was certainly NOT my intent.

I simply said they outnumber because it is easier join. For instance, there are reasons one may be denied joining actual third order that would not be an issue when becoming an oblate. I had no desire to bring any of this up as I didn't want to imply that either/or is better or lacking.

Again, I am not planning on changing rites or fraternities at this time. All I am looking for is books. I am a voracious reader. My local library has precious few. I have no "needs" other than a desire to learn. I am particularly interested in prayer books as that is the anchor of my life.

As a terciary, I am not bound to the same prayer book the way a friary or cloister would be. At the fraternity, they have small books with only Laudes and Vespers, while everyone uses something else at home.

Yesterday I stumbled across a blog about prayer books that was just fabulous. I looked up one he mentioned The Publican's Prayerbook. It's Melkite. Wow, is it beautiful!

MaxMarie,

May the Lord give you peace!
I too am a professed member of the OFS. The prayer book I've used is "Let Us Pray to the Lord" volume 1. This past year I've subscribed to Byzantine Daily Office which I get on my computer/smart phone, which is very useful for when I'm at work. Both of these can be found, as well as other good books at: www.ecpubs.com. [ecpubs.com.] Welcome to the Forum!

Pax eT bonum,
Jeffmbyzsfo(ofs)

Pace e Bene! No need to apologize. I was not insulted at all, I just wanted to clarify that one point. If you're a voracious reader who is interested in eastern Christianity, and your experience is anything like mine was, then you have many, many joyful hours ahead.