www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Vice Presdential Debate and the Catholic Vote

Not true. If anything we have a superiority complex regarding the US. We are well aware that we have higher wages, lower unemployment, less debt, higher net worth, better health, better healthcare, less obesity, a better educated population, less of our population incarcerated, lower abortion rates, a lower welfare budget as proportion of GDP, the list goes on and on.

Another interesting statement/ statements from and about the USCCB

Conflicting messages to the laity by the USCCB and Bishops of the politicians claiming to be "Catholic"

I believe these conflicting messages confuse the laity - resulting in a Catholic vote supporting politicians who support abortion by a whopping 57% or higher.

I often wonder how a Catholic can vote for an abortionist - and more importantly a politician who supports infanticide (Obama) at the moment of a failed abortion (baby is alive on the table - after the abortion attempt - Obama voted 4 times to allow that baby to be killed)

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/us...brates-catholicism-of-vp-picks-biden-and


Please consider this as the vote draws near - beg your fellow catholics to consider their vote in light of eternal life.

I don't want to start World War III here, but I would point you to Blessed John Paul II's great encyclical VERITATIS SPLENDOR, in which he speaks of a great many "intrinsic evils" besides abortion, many of them often overlooked today, including 'whatever is offensive to human dignity, such as subhuman living conditions, arbitrary imprisonment, deportation, slavery, prostitution and trafficking in women and children; degrading conditions of work which treat labourers as mere instruments of profit'.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j..._enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor_en.html

Polish American,

How does your reference to the encyclical relate to the discussion?

PA,

If one uses the broadest meaning of "intrinsic evil" then the following example has to be included. This is:

To provide a welfare status where one is denied the dignity of labor, or independently earning a living for his/her family.

We have many examples set into law where one doesn't earn X dollars because it will reduce a government benefit.


Do you agree?

Sounds like the infamous "Seamless Garment" is rearing its head again. I haven't watched any of the debates and will not have my peace disturbed by them, or the following news media comments. I think I will read my psalter while they are on. Early voting starts tomorrow in my state, so the election will soon be over for me.

Well, I know that our Early Voting started, pfft, at least a week, maybe two weeks ago. I've already had my ballot in since Saturday morning, and I did vote GOP the whole way across the board, as I felt I was supposed to. Let's just hope we can convince others to do the same.

Abortion is NOT the only "intrinsic evil" a Catholic voter must consider when examining a candidate - Republican or Democrat - for public office. Your vote is not as easy and automatic as you may think.

I have read that Romney plans to introduce no new legislation on abortion. The seamless garment of that infamous prelate from Chicago is, however, a bit nutty. I am surprised it is still around. I don't think we get to weigh sins and make the call on what is bad or worse. Seems like that is God's call.

My great-great grandfather voted for Lincoln in 1860. I haven't questioned his wisdom in selecting party affiliation.

Yes, but we can't vote for a candidate who supports any intrinsic evil, like Abortion. This is non-negotiable. The DNC supports abortion as part of its platform, how can any pro-life person vote for a party that's platform includes abortion?

Yeah, just sad that myself, Polish American, and Joe in Slavland all live in a heavily Democratic area of the state, so it's gonna be very difficult to convince everyone to know the truth. I mean, plenty of deacons, priests, and even bishops made it clear in their sermons/homilies about what would happen if Obama/Biden wound up with a second term. If that doesn't wake up the congregation, and the REAL Catholic vote, I'm not sure what would.

Here is a recent study from NCR Online concluding that

"Among Catholics, 77 percent said "pro-life" describes them well or very well, and 70 percent said "pro-choice" describes them."

In fact this study shows many segments of society (the young, the old, republicans, democrats ... you name it) identify as BOTH pro life and pro choice in polling.

77% said pro life then 70% say pro choice - not sure of the polling methods but either the math does not add up OR people (including Catholics) ARE BOTH PRO CHOICE AND PRO LIFE.

In my own personal discussions with many Catholics face to face - I see this phenomenon. One lady recently told me " I am Pro Life but I don't want to interfere with someone elses choice".

I left that discussion dismayed and confused. (isn't that a Led Zeppelin tune?)

I would like to refer to Nelson's quote also ...

The right that is missing in the DNC definition is the CIVIL RIGHT OF THE FETUS (BABY = HUMAN = US CITIZEN IN THE WOMB)

I hope we can all see that.

And that is where the politics come in. That is where morality lies. That should be the focus.

Father Frank Pavone calls abortion THE GREATEST CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATION OF OUR TIMES.

p.s. I am opposed to all intrinsic evil - Abortion is one of the most evil ... but poverty, discrimination, human trafficking deserve attention also - they however DO NOT REPLACE EACH OTHER or eliminate the need to fight for overturning Roe V Wade or any inroads we can made to reduce and remove abortion.

To say that because there is prostitution and human trafficking so we should not be fighting for the Civil Rights of the Fetus and against abortion is just flat wrong. We should fight for all - and of course it may require fighting one at a time as Abortion may be considered a precursor to many of the conditions. If we view life as expendable it translates to other areas (human trafficking, viewing ourselves as superior to hard manual laborers etc.)

I for one am willing to fight for the abolishment of all legitimate instrinsic evils - especially TO ABOLISH ABORTION!

I may be a cynic, but I honestly do not believe that Roe v. Wade will ever be overturned, because it is all about the money. It is not in the Republican's interest to overturn it. They have used abortion as the issue to bring all the conservative Christians into the party, and all their money. And there is a LOT of money generated on both sides of the issue.

If R v W were overturned, then what issue would hold the evangelicals in the Republican Party? Economics is a strong motivator, but it gets too abstract for too many people. Christians would start looking at the the rest of the biblical teachings, about how society is to take care of the widow, the orphan, the ill, the imprisoned ... and, truthfully, the Democratic Party has a much better track record on those issues.

I honestly think that even if we had a majority of Congressmen who sincerely wanted to outlaw abortion, the powerbrokers wouldn't allow it. They would pull all kinds of strings and shenanigans behind the scenes to prevent it from happening: There is too much money at stake.

As I said, I may be a cynic, but that's how corrupt I think the power structure behind our system is. I do not believe that we will be able to legislate abortion away. The only way to end abortion is through conversion, one mind, one heart at a time.

Pan,

To believe that the Dems do a better job of social issues one must believe that words constitute actions. Moreover, one would have to believe that the control we give away to the Government is worth paying people not to work. I don't believe either is true.