www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship The Kliros Menaion vs. resurrectional TONES of the week

If you look at the Menaion - there are specific Troparia and Kontakia for each and every day -

What takes precedent on any given day? The Trop an Kontak of the Menaion or the Resurrectional Tones of the week?

For example when chanting Vespers - today calls for the feast day of Joannis, Nikander and Hermas (mostly in tone 4) - in the Menaion.

My printout of Vespers as a reader service contains the tone for Theotokion, Tropar and Kontak - the tone for the week is Tone 6

How do you decide what to do?

Are the feast days of the Menaion preferable or by choice at each church?

In vespers for the stichera at Psalm 140 you combine both the day in the tone of the week first with those of the saint from the menaion second.

For the troparia, you would use the saint of the day followed by the theotokion of the same tone as the saint's tropar. If there are two saints,

tropar saint one
glory
Tropar saint two
Now
Theotokion in the tone of saint two

Steve Puluka
MA, Theology Duquesne University
Cantor Holy Ghost Church
Carpatho-Rusyn tradition
Mckees Rocks, PA
http://puluka.com

I guess I'm not real smart and I really want to understand this.

So today (election day Nov 6th 2012) the menaion has

Saint Paul the confessor

and the tone of the week is 6 right?

So the daily vespers would be

theotokion of tone 3 (generic)
Troparia of Paul the Confessor Tone 3

Psalm 140 (tone 6?)

Kontakia as in the Menaion (st paul the confessor?)

Stichera in Tone 6? alternating Stichera in Tone 3?

I'm a bit confused and I've even read the Typicon

p.s. Byzantine Catholic Monthly Menaion via MCI website

But another point is ... if you look at the Monthly Menaion - there are saints every day - you would never chant the resurrectional tones.

You would always be chanting what is published in the Menaion right?

Is this left to the discretion of the priest/parish/bishop or does the Menaion take precedence.

I have not compared the Menaion to the Typicon yet.

Sorry for the confusion. I'll try to be a little more specific for the vesper usages.

At Psalm 140
Stichera for the Tone of the week
There is a collection for each day of the week in each tone. This includes the days Stichera and the final theotokion for the series.

There are stichera for the saint of the day from either the menaion or the collection of general menaion by class of saint.

Some feasts or saints are important enough to have a theotokion as well.

The general structure is:
1- The stichera for the tone of the week for this day. All together.

2- The stichera for the saint of the day. All together.

3- The theotokion
Theotokion for the feast or specific saint of the day takes precedence. Some will have two split between the glory/now.

Theotokion for the tone of the week for this day if there is none for the feast/saint.

Apostica
These will generally be for the tone of the week for that day. For major feasts or larger saints the menaion will have these ascribed and will be used instead.

Troparion after the Our Father
We do not use the kontakion at vespers.

Tropar for the saint. This will be from the menaion or the general menaion for the class of saint.

Glory/now
Theotokion from the tone that matches the tropar just sung.


Steve Puluka
MA, Theology Duquesne University
Cantor Holy Ghost Church
Carpatho-Rusyn tradition
Mckees Rocks, PA
http://puluka.com

Thank you Mr Puluka,

I really appreciate this detailed explanation.

Next I am going to dissect the difference between Sunday Vespers
and Daily Vespers.

I am praying these daily now ... I was doing them wrong before this ... I will do them correctly now.

A couple of other points.

If the Saint is polyeleos rank or higher (six plus stichera provided for them), there are NO stichera for the tone on Gospodi Vozzvakh (Pslam 140).

Everything is taken from the saint for such a service.

Another point worth noting - on Friday, for the closing of the week, the Sunday theotokion of the tone of the week is always sung (at least in modern ROCOR/ Moscow Patriarch usage).

Another point - the prokimenon at vespers is always from the day.

Another point -

Final point - Sunday vespers is different in several respects if combined with matins as a vigil - for example, if there is no polyeleos rank saint, the Hail Mary is sung three times instead of the proper troparia at the conclusion of vespers. Same thing applies if Saint of the day is big enough to be a vigil rank service, except that the troparion of the saint replaces the third Hail Mary.

One other point - the tone of the week does not determine what tone Gospodi Vozzvakh/ Psalm 140 is sung on.

Most accurately, it is sung on the tone of the first stichera appointed. So, for example, if the first stichera sung is from the oktoechos, Gospodi Vozzvakh is also song on the tone of the week.

If there is a six stichera rank saint, and the first stichera appointed for them is in say tone three, Gospodi vozzvakh is sung on tone three no matter what the tone of the week.

It's complicated.

This is not Ruthenian practice. We mix the tones. If the oktoeckos says tone 1 and the saint is tone 8 we do both tones.

Father Deacon,

I think that what Otsheylnik is saying is that the beginning of Psalm 140 ("O Lord, I have cried" = "Hospodi vozzvach") is sung in the tone of the first sticheron that will follow the recited verses of the psalmody.

In which case, that IS the way it is done by the Ruthenians. On some days we use the Octoechos, and on some days we don't.

To the original poster:

The order of the stichera at daily Vespers can be found on page vii of the MCI Daily Vespers book:

http://metropolitancantorinstitute.org/sheetmusic/general/DailyVespers.pdf

Note that on Fridays, the order is reversed - the saints' stichera come first, followed by the weekday hymns in the tone of the week, which then flow into the doxastikon in the same tone. So the same dogmatikon that started the tone of the week (on the previous Saturday evening) returns to finish the week (on Friday night.)

Jeff

That was going to be my next question

FRIDAY is a special day and is why they are reversed ... can you explain the theology behind this if you have the time?

Correct sir. I misunderstood O.

Correct, no problem.




The theology comes from the fact that the Sunday is a feast day in its own right (feast of the Resurrection), and if there is a feast there is also a leave taking of the feast. The leave taking service usually uses the texts of the feast, hence for the closure/ leave taking of the Sunday tone, the Sunday texts are used.

Saturday is the vigil of the Resurrection and of course the ancient Sabbath, and marks the end of the week. Thus Friday evening Vespers can be thought of as the leave-taking of that particular weekly tone of the Octoechos, with the stikhera being sung later than those from the Menaion and the Dogmatikon being sung.