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Dec 29th, 2019
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There will most likely be 4 Supreme Court vacancies within the next 4 years. Okay, good point. Appointments to the Supreme Court can make a more substantive and long-term difference. And no, my friend, the Godless Left has not won. And if your answer is to roll over and die because you feel the Godless have won, then I now understand why Britain will be Muslim in 5 years. I still don't get where you see 'roll over and die' in my words. I am saying that I think there are better, and more intellectually engaging, strategies than proclaiming a combination of a new Soviet republic and the end of the world - the first of which is spiritual, liturgical, and personal fidelity to our religious tradition; the second of which is to fearlessly engage with the culture we find ourselves in, to identify what is salvageable, and to sow the seeds of better ideas where only desolation remains. Simply railing against the culture will not do. In all the epistles of St Paul, there is hardly a word written against the surrounding culture. He clearly condemns the sinful behaviour of those within the Church already, but when it comes to speaking to the world outside of the Church, he recognises whatever is useable in what they have (think the Athonite altar to the unknown god), appropriates it for evangelical purpose, then proceeds to convert the people. Surely you can see the parallels? I don't think of St Paul as rolling over and dying. As for Britain, its rot began 500 years ago. The devils began moving back into this spiritual house as soon as it abandoned the Faith of the Fathers. There is far, far more wrong here than just its socio-economic model (although I agree the latter is a mess. But if I though for one second that Islam was going to dominate the land 'in five years', I would fly to the hills and begin plotting its re-evangelisation in the footsteps of all the great saints who undertook the same work between 1600 and 1300 years ago. At least I hope I would.
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Desertman,
I'm not taking the criticism personally, and I have no animosity toward you. You have stated your opinion and I respect that.
My responses are to demonstrate that many people like me won't willingly accept the so-called "new normal." This new normal, or abnormal, destroys family life. No-fault divorces were supposed to make divorce painless and inexpensive; the result is that newlyweds don't expect to remain married. Their children are torn from parents; court fights continue for years regarding custody, when each parent tries to convince a judge that the other parent is a demon.
53 millions souls have been brutally dismembered, drowned in salt or deprived of nourishment and never got an opportunity to breath his/her first breath. Literally millions of women who have abortions suffer from Post Abortion Syndrome, most times undiagnosed. They hate themselves and try to punish themselves with suicide attempts, drugs, alcohol or eating disorders.
Elderly exist in institutions, depressed and alone, because they bought the "planned pregnancy" deception and had no children or only one or two who chased this "American Dream" for riches in other lands like the prodigal son; spending their parents' small fortune on college costs.
You have millions others who have abused their human dignity and believe they don't have to work and that they deserve to be given a "living wage" for doing nothing.
Its not just the Democrat leaders who have made this part of their political platform, but we have been misled by Republican candidates like Romney who don't want to bring up these issues because they are afraid of being "embarassed" when some demented "journalist" and agnostic publisher make fun of them.
Our Anchor is Christ, and we follow His Way, the way of the cross. Sometimes the cross means coming out of our comfort zones and speaking up for the defenseless, the elderly and the downtrodden. Respect for human life and the human dignity of EVERY person is not optional. If we differ, then we are not Christ's followers. Certainly, we must do this without malice, if we fight the good fight receive help from the Holy Spirit so that we maintain a spiritual and mental peace.
This is our justification.
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Paul,
Thanks for the reply. I don't think I made myself clear enough in what I was saying, because we're very much in agreement. I in no way meant that we should stop speaking out for the unborn and making our voices heard. I never meant to imply I think we should all drop out and keep to ourselves. All I was saying is that the problem is much bigger than an election and much bigger than Obama and to make real change we need to change the hearts of the people who put these kind of politicians in office. It seems like to do that we're going to need a much different approach to communicating the value of life and morals in a way that speaks to this generation who is becoming hardened in their secular worldview.
On the political front, conservative Christians have lost their credibility with the modern culture because unfortunately young people are being taught by the media and in the universities to associate conservatives with elderly whites, with racism and contempt for the poor. So there's a need to think outside the Republican political box in order for conservativess to regain credibility and to find ways to be more influential with the changing culture in which our beliefs are becoming increasingly mocked.
The early Christians converted the pagan world by their authentic love and by truly reflecting Christ. I think what the OP was trying to say is that those who shake their fists around, calling the other side "Commies" or Obama the anti-Christ only play into the other side's false image of Christian conservative ideas and give them a bad name. We need to learn to love and pray for those we disagree with and treat them with respect, without ceasing to stand up for what we believe.
Last edited by desertman; 11/11/12 09:19 PM.
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Having seen the "vice-presidential debate and the Catholic vote" thread make its way to the top of the front page again, I have to say that I am utterly bewildered by the apocalyptic tone of many of the posts.
From the point of view of a traditional Eastern Christian living in Britain, it seems incredible that many Catholic (and - dare I say it - Evangelical) Americans should seem, virtually, to confuse the outcome of a presidential election with the end of time. (emphasis mine) From the point of view of a traditional Eastern Christian living in the US, ... Amen!
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Having seen the "vice-presidential debate and the Catholic vote" thread make its way to the top of the front page again, I have to say that I am utterly bewildered by the apocalyptic tone of many of the posts.
From the point of view of a traditional Eastern Christian living in Britain, it seems incredible that many Catholic (and - dare I say it - Evangelical) Americans should seem, virtually, to confuse the outcome of a presidential election with the end of time. (emphasis mine) From the point of view of a traditional Eastern Christian living in the US, ... Amen! +1 from the point of view of a traditional Eastern Orthodox Christian living in the US...Amen!.
Last edited by DMD; 11/12/12 10:11 AM.
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Paul,
The early Christians converted the pagan world by their authentic love and by truly reflecting Christ. I think what the OP was trying to say is that those who shake their fists around, calling the other side "Commies" or Obama the anti-Christ only play into the other side's false image of Christian conservative ideas and give them a bad name. We need to learn to love and pray for those we disagree with and treat them with respect, without ceasing to stand up for what we believe. I wholeheartedly agree with the above. To do otherwise is a repudiation of our respect for life values. We must be mindful that the President was also created in the image of God and pray that he and his political allies experience metanoia. But we should also recall Christ's words, whenever you go into a town and people don't welcome you, go out into its streets and say,
‘We are wiping off your town's dust that clings to our feet in protest against you! But realize this: the kingdom of God is near!’
I tell you, on the last day it will be easier for Sodom than for that town! (Lk 10:10-12) We must pray that the Holy Spirit give is the wisdom to know when it is proper to change from the former to the latter.
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How do you go about that? The same way secular liberals did it--the long march through the institutions. Indeed. Ruthless and relentless. Anyone who says it is definitely over (and it might be: the US has no divine promise to survive all time), take a look at the political map of America in 1964, and compare it 20 years later in 1984.
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Yeah... Now I hear that there are people that want to secede from the Union and form a country that will actually distance themselves away from this secularity. Wish I could join them in breaking away and becoming independent of Washington's bigotry. Although I'm not sure if this was a Tea Party idea to break away from the Union, but I am pretty sure that they no doubt have us, as Catholics, in mind with this one.
Last edited by 8IronBob; 11/14/12 05:15 PM.
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I despise the direction of our country. I despise the present ineffectiveness of the Church to change enough hearts and minds to make a difference. After ranting against the darkness, which I anticipate doing from time to time, I think God is leading me again to find creative and hopefully effective ways to bring the fullness of the Gospel to more and more people. Hopefully, I'll something more useful to say in the weeks ahead.
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I just received an e-mail from CatholicVote.org (maybe you guys did, too, if you're signed up with them), that says that the Active Catholic vote was in majority of Romney and of the GOP Senate Candidates, as seen in this: Dear Friend of CV,
If you've read any post-election news reports, you might be thinking that we lost the Catholic vote big time.
But that's not true.
The media are already trumpeting the news that the “Catholic vote” went for Barack Obama 50-48. But like every headline, there's more to the story. Wait, there's more: Active Catholics accounted for 11% of the electorate in 2012 and voted 57-42 for Mitt Romney over President Obama. This represents a 14-point swing from 2008.
This means that hundreds of thousands of Catholics changed their vote from 4 years ago -- voting this this time for the candidate representing life, family, and freedom.
That said, the results were clear, and we fell short of our goal, in part because of the impact of the Hispanic Catholic vote (75-21 for Obama), single women voters and young people. We can’t solve every electoral problem. Our job is to educate, activate and mobilize the Catholic vote. And 42% of Mass attending Catholics voting for a President who stands against virtually everything we believe is simply unacceptable. Source Link: http://email.vervemail.com/hostedem...d033645fa3b4c527a34522d&ei=6usBaKsNdSeems like we were on the right track, according to some of these results, but we wound up in defeat by those that prefer secularity, and to further persecute us. Seems like all the minority populations, college youth that are brought up with no morals, and the unions have us hostage. I'm hoping we can fight back and become stronger than ever in this country someday...
Last edited by 8IronBob; 11/15/12 06:31 PM.
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Well ... my commitment to not being polemic may be at risk here ...
The vote was BAFFLING but predictable
HISPANIC (90% CATHOLIC?) 70& TO OBAMA why? DREAM ACT IMPLEMENTED A FEW MONTHS PRIOR TO THE ELECTION --- gift of money we do not have
Catholics - AGAIN VOTING AGAINST THEIR OWN DOGMAS AND THEOLOGY - 50% Obama 47% Romney
Lot's of people getting FREE STUFF from the Goverment - Young students with FREE GIFTS OF GOVERNMENT GRANTS TO ATTEND OVERPRICED COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES TO GET USELESS DEGREES WITHOUT JOBS FOR THEM is one example
So you can see why the uneducated - or unimformed voter votes -
Economics is a very interesting science and if you asked the majority (I would bet 90%) could not tell you why MILTONIAN capitalism transformed POOR and devastaed Economies of Chile Peru and Estonia - (they set up TAX FREE zones for businesses - TAX REVENUE SOARED AND ALLOWED THOSE ECONOMIES TO FLOURISH)
We are in a pseudo keynsian world (they are only implementing half of Keynesiam measures - the increase in tax revenue of the rich).
Finally - we are a very religiously poor nation when we allow the HHS mandate - vehemently anti Catholic in nature, TAX PAYER PAID ABORTIONS AND CONTRACEPTION (the killing of the innocents pale in comparison) as the major issues to select a President.
I am afraid that the USA has seen it's last days of being a great nation where Freedom, individual responsiblity, hard work, entreprenuerism are the hallmarks of our country.
The Brave new world we face - and mark my words it will come to pass - Businesses with their money will FLEE the USA in droves- busineses will only hire part time workers to avoid providing benefits - The Economic drain will happend slowly but markedly - and before I retire (never) there will be no money for Social Security, Medicare - OBAMACARE already 9 months behind implementation schedule - Governors of States still do not understand what they are supposed to implement - let alone the public - CAN ANYONE HERE DESCRIBE THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS OF A HEALTH PLAN ACCEPTABLE TO GOVERMENT BUROCRATS AND OBAMACARE GUIDELINES - WHAT ARE THE GUIDLINES? 1500 PAGES OF REGULATIONS SO CONFUSING NO ONE UNDERSTANDS THEM - AND DON'T FORGET NEBRASKA IS EXEMPT AS ARE MANY OF THE OBAMA SUPPORTER COMPANIES AND UNIONS
We are in for a MESS
Ceasar appears to reign but like Pontius Pilate who thought he had control was told by Jesus that he had no power not given him by God almighty - so we must give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's and give to God what is God's
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Not to mention that Obama may deny these states the secession that they want to have, too, and force us to pay up, and live with the same socialism everyone else is forced to. *Sigh* Seems like they'll not even let us escape to Canada, Australia or Mexico, either. Sad times in this country indeed...  Trust me, even if these states were allowed to secede, I doubt that they would even let us escape to those states, it's gonna wind up being like Germany was during the Soviet Union times.
Last edited by 8IronBob; 11/17/12 07:12 PM.
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One more thing ...
In the 1960's there were unjust and morally offensive laws in the USA.
The Blacks of the South and the Freedom riders and Counter sitters risked their lives and imprisonment to show how the unjust laws affected all of America.
America USA responded with enthusiastic non violent pressure
I am beginning to believe that CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE (and is that not what Jesus Christ himself used to allow himself to be put to death upon his declaration of his Divinity to the Sanhedrin?)
yes 1960's style - RADICAL - YET CONSERVATIVE opposition to the unjust laws that we now have and more yet to follow - are the True American Way -
16 States have hundreds of thousands of signatures which the Federal Government is required to respond to legally - of sucession from the Union.
I am considering my taking my Pro Life protests in front of Abortion Clinics and Planned Parenthood to a new level - where I submit myself to arrest - again and again - and make sure the press covers it (unlikely) and urge my fellow Pro Lifers to do the same ... to sacrifice like the Freedom Riders of the 60's
To be arrested over and over again - to implement hunger strikes to the point of near death or death itself - to bring to light the horrors of abortion.
It is time for CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE against unjust laws and unjust goverments! I call my fellows to be Christ like in this calling and join the Martyrs of old in the new cause to save lives and revert anti-catholicism and anti-religious goverments.
I'm not sure that stance is polemic is it? Is acting on your conscience in protest of an unjust law in such a radical way polemic?
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One more thing ...
In the 1960's there were unjust and morally offensive laws in the USA.
The Blacks of the South and the Freedom riders and Counter sitters risked their lives and imprisonment to show how the unjust laws affected all of America.
America USA responded with enthusiastic non violent pressure
I am beginning to believe that CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE (and is that not what Jesus Christ himself used to allow himself to be put to death upon his declaration of his Divinity to the Sanhedrin?)
yes 1960's style - RADICAL - YET CONSERVATIVE opposition to the unjust laws that we now have and more yet to follow - are the True American Way -
16 States have hundreds of thousands of signatures which the Federal Government is required to respond to legally - of sucession from the Union.
I am considering my taking my Pro Life protests in front of Abortion Clinics and Planned Parenthood to a new level - where I submit myself to arrest - again and again - and make sure the press covers it (unlikely) and urge my fellow Pro Lifers to do the same ... to sacrifice like the Freedom Riders of the 60's
To be arrested over and over again - to implement hunger strikes to the point of near death or death itself - to bring to light the horrors of abortion.
It is time for CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE against unjust laws and unjust goverments! I call my fellows to be Christ like in this calling and join the Martyrs of old in the new cause to save lives and revert anti-catholicism and anti-religious goverments.
I'm not sure that stance is polemic is it? Is acting on your conscience in protest of an unjust law in such a radical way polemic?
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OK ... only one more post ...
Did anyone know that there was a provision withing Obamacare that allowed for LONG TERM CARE?? Long Term care is different than regular health insurance and is very very expensive.
5 Billion dollars was allocated to implement just this portion of Obamacare
ALL THE MONEY HAS BEEN SPENT JUST TRYING TO IMPLEMENT THIS - AND NOW THE PROGRAM - OUT OF MONEY - IS BEING CANCELLED AND DROPPED OUT OF OBAMACARE - NOT A SINGLE PERSON GOT ANY CARE - NOT A ONE
This program at $5 billion did not ever get off the ground.
nobody knows much about this ... This is also what we are headed for.
I read this in an article snd anyone can PM me for the source if they are interested.
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