www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Comments on this forum concerning the presidential election

Mariya,

I'm saddened that there isn't another clinic of some kind which will serve their needs without the temptation of "the near occasion of sin" that is so easily available to them. Is there a Catholic hospital nearby?

It is not the function of hospitals to do annual pap smears and prescribe the pill.

You're right, a Catholic hospital shouldn't prescribe or distribute contraceptives. You know, after completing a course, Natural Family Planning is much cheaper than the pill, which has side effects. Your diocese could tell you about the next class.

Studies have verified that it is nearly as effective as the pill, which gets its added effectiveness with an abortificient. The abortificient "starves" the newly conceived baby by cutting off nourishment through the lining.

Not to be snappy, but I suggest you and all the other opinionated males get a female body and practice natural planning and see how it works out for you.

Also to be clear on my views, while I am a big fan of Jesus Christ and his Mother, I am not necessarily impressed with everything about the Orthodox Church. I have my prayer book that I printed from the internet, but recently I decided to order a print prayer book (a little paperback). When I opened the Family Prayers section, the first two were: Prayer of a Maiden for a Husband (no prayer of a young man for a wife) and Prayer for a Male Child (no prayer for a female child, obviously). That prayer book went into the recycle bin.

Done editing now!

Slavophile,

I am trying to learn how to do that ... walk softly with Truth on my side.

And frankly I am struggling with it.

I do not condemn those who obtain abortions - simply the abortion procedure itself.

I guess I am trying to call people to REALIZE and RECOGNIZE the truth within themselves.

Can you tell me the solution?
How do we fight abortions (since this topic has suddenly changed to abortions because PP is the MAJOR abortion provider in the USA)?

Do we do Civil Disobedience?
Do we refuse to comply with Obamacare?
Refuse to comply with the HHS mandate - to the radical conclusion of being thrown in prison?
Do we martyr ourselves (not in death but in death to self protection)?

If 1 million Catholics refused to pay taxes or the fine for Obamacare or every Catholic Institution refused to pay the FED's their fines - and HELD THE LINE - what could the FED's do? Would they imprison 1,000,000 people?

So I ask in all sincerity - HOW DOES A RELIGIOUS ORTHODOX defend Life and oppose Abortion?

By the way - neither party answered the questions. You see - you cannot defend the procedure and say that you are one with Christ.

The poster gave an "ORTHODOX BOW" in reverence to a murderous institution. PP murders more infants than any of the biblical kings did.

Bringing these last 2 points up - by default - takes away my attempt to walk softly - to Love as Christ loved ... but I am truly struggling with this because those 2 points are VALID and TRUE and I don't know how to fight this battle with Abortionists anymore - I don't know how to convince others any other way. I ask your help in explaining the grave consequences of supporting abortion and abortionists.

In the Love of Christ - John

This post is for Paul B.:

Paul, I'm kind of uncomfortable now because I feel that I have to go into defending my views and I do not want to do that because I still do not want to get into any polemics, so I'm done in this thread. All I wanted to say is: try to look at PP with a different set of eyes - they provide the very necessary service for tons of women who have nowhere else to get it. You may disagree with a part of what they do but you ought to be fair and acknowledge what they do right. To ask for PP to be defunded would be to say to all these women - "your health does not matter either to your country (where Obamacare is not in effect yet) OR to your church. It's your problem that you don't have money - go say some prayers, maybe the pain will go away." I was suffering last week from that infection - went to PP - got a pill - now I'm not in pain anymore. (But such minor things do not matter to some holy rollers, do they.)

Slavophile,

Please take no offense as I truly do not want to offend.

I am disheartened at the battle of trying to change those hearts and minds.

The Freedom Riders of the 1960's were also asked to wait and be patient - but you see - they could not.

Some even chose violent routes on the quest - Malcolm X, etc. and I DON'T WANT THAT - but CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE and also TRYING LOVINGLY (HOW?) TO POINT OUT THE ERRORS AND SINS OF OTHERS REMEMBERING THAT I AM THE GREASTEST OF SINNERS MYSELF.

Help me see this Brother. Help me to explain how we change politicians who refuse to change. Who say they are going to exclude abortion from healthcare - and when it becomes law becomes the CENTERPIECE of the legislation.

Your Brother in Christ.

John

We may have to agree to disagree on this, but as a wife and a mother, I was appalled and saddened by this statement. Men and women are equal partners in all aspects of married life, and this includes decisions regarding birth control, pregnancy, and childbirth. I think of all the hours my husband spent nursing me through two high-risk pregnancies because our children are just as much his children as they are mine, because he feels as deeply invested in our family as I am, and of course, because he loves me and (rightly) sees his contributions to our family as just as valuable as my own. I don't believe it is necessary for a man to “get a female body” to have the right to formulate and post an opinion regarding contraception. I don't believe a man's opinion on this topic is less relevant than a woman's. Indeed, perhaps I am alone in this, but I welcome their involvement, and would encourage more men (whether I agree with their views or not) to take a more active role in the discussion, both here on the forum and elsewhere.

Their role in the discussion is more than active. It's the women I can't hear very well.

Because the pastoral(economoia) and theological approach is very different between Orthodox and Catholics on this particular heated subject, I find it futile to argue it. (For the record, I am Orthodox).

Have a happy Thanksgiving!
In Christ,
Alice

Thanks Alice! Same to you and to everyone here.

Alice

Do the Orthodox approve of abortion?
Do they approve of supporting Planned Parenthood in their quest to eliminate these babies?

Again I ask with sincere interest in the Orthodox position - I know you and yes Mariya are good Christian women - but I am not taking a position against women.

Does SCOBA take a published position on this?

What does your Bishop say about Planned Parenthood and abortion?

I am just trying to figure out what Economoia you are talking about.

Also - Orthodox (big O) and orthodox (little o) - this seems to not make much difference with abortion except with contraceptives (not abortifactents). I believe the Orthodox believe that abortion is wrong and I believe that the Orthodox would view PP as evil and the work of the devil from what I know of their economoia.

Correct me if I am wrong please

Your Brother in Christ

John

This is what I understand the Orthodox position to be on birth control ....

Unlike the Catholic tradition, the Eastern Orthodox Church does not discern a moral difference between artificial or natural birth control methods. They note that many Church Fathers, as well as the Pauline texts in the New Testament, do not strictly limit sexual intercourse to procreation; the Orthodox position is that sexual intercourse also constitutes an expression of love within the marriage contract. No official statement has been made on prohibitions for artificial contraceptives, while abortion, infanticide and permanent sterilization have been condemned. The Orthodox Church allows a married couple to make their own decisions on contraceptive use.

I'm virtually sure that my sister Alice is speaking about different approaches on the question of contraception, and not on the question of abortion. I know for a fact that Alice is opposed to abortion, as are the Orthodox Churches. Of course, if I'm incorrect in any aspect of what I've written or presumed, I invite Alice to correct me.