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Dec 29th, 2019
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Athanasius,
I agree ... I am not trying to fight and I do not want to offend Alice. I also don't want to offend Marija ...
I want to understand the Orthodox position on this - especially as it relates to Planned Parenthood because I have never heard - probably because I don't read the right stuff - An Orthodox Bishop talk about this issue of Planned Parenthood and their obvious quest to be the # abortion provider in the USA.
I want Alice to know that I am not saying SHE is wrong.
Alice - please take my questions and concerns as intended - I don't want to enflame this subject either -
It is also probably futile to continue because it is so easy to be misunderstood - people are very polarized on this subject.
I apologize if my tone was wrong ... it was not my intention.
Last edited by haydukovich; 11/21/12 07:57 PM.
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I'm virtually sure that my sister Alice is speaking about different approaches on the question of contraception, and not on the question of abortion. I know for a fact that Alice is opposed to abortion, as are the Orthodox Churches. Thanks! You are of course correct!  This is what I understand the Orthodox position to be on birth control ....
Unlike the Catholic tradition, the Eastern Orthodox Church does not discern a moral difference between artificial or natural birth control methods. They note that many Church Fathers, as well as the Pauline texts in the New Testament, do not strictly limit sexual intercourse to procreation; the Orthodox position is that sexual intercourse also constitutes an expression of love within the marriage contract. No official statement has been made on prohibitions for artificial contraceptives, while abortion, infanticide and permanent sterilization have been condemned. The Orthodox Church allows a married couple to make their own decisions on contraceptive use. Haydukovich-you have answered your own questions! I think MariyaNJ pops up here from time to time. She loves to argue over everything. We'd all be better if she didn't come around but until that happens just ignore her. Carson-as a Moderator of this forum, I must warn you to refrain from such uncharitable remarks; they will not be tolerated.
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Joined: Feb 2012
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I keep reiterating here that PP is the only option for low-income women to get affordable and accessible female health services, and no one aside from Paul B. has responded... I wonder why. Is it not an important matter?
Last edited by MariyaNJ; 11/21/12 08:31 PM.
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as a Moderator of this forum, I must warn you to refrain from such uncharitable remarks; they will not be tolerated. Thank you Alice.
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I am not trying to fight and I do not want to offend Alice. I also don't want to offend Marija ... , I am not offended, I am only surprised that people are only willing to see one side of the debate (PP providing abortions) and not another (PP providing affordable healthcare to low-income women). It makes me conclude that folks are willing to leave these women in the cold without help and feel like heroes in the process. I do not want to fight either, but to me it is disturbing. That is why I say: where are the women in the room? what do they have to say about defunding PP?
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You are incorrect that Planned Parenthood is the only option for low-income women to get affordable and accessible female health care. At least, that isn't the case in California. Routine gynecological care can be provided by any primary care doctor at any community health clinic. There are probably a few thousand such clinics in my state (California) alone. Here is one example: http://www.mercysacramento.org/cm/content/primary_care_clinics.asp
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mariya
love your name!
I understand your point -
Don't underestimate the women on this forum - I'm sure they are there.
I want good health care for all women - women in the USA and women in the world (afghanistan and the really poor as well).
I don't like Planned Parenthood because they take the good works they do (health care) and hide behind that shield to promote abortions - which it is my life's work to oppose.
I oppose abortions because I adopted my son - and I found out what a precious life it was that I received and I looked at the number of parents unable to conceive or that simply wanted more children and I found out that there are more people willing to adopt babies than you can imagine - and more could be convinced if necessary. It truly changed me to adopt my son.
Then I reflected on us all - that we are all adopted sons and daughters of Christ - then I realized YES even the fetuses.
Then I started researching the Civil Rights of humans and came to the conclusion that the fetuses were also human and US citizens.
Believe me - I am not in a WAR on women as I told Alice - I am in a WAR FOR women. I am on their side!
With love in Christ
John
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You are incorrect that Planned Parenthood is the only option for low-income women to get affordable and accessible female health care. At least, that isn't the case in California. Routine gynecological care can be provided by any primary care doctor at any community health clinic. There are probably a few thousand such clinics in my state (California) alone. Here is one example: http://www.mercysacramento.org/cm/content/primary_care_clinics.aspThat's really awesome Gariníon. I am not aware of any such clinics in my state... They have emergency care for the poor but that's for hospital visits.
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Joined: Nov 2001
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I hear all the time about men and women being equal under the law of the USA. And that is fine; I respect women just as I expect they should respect men.
But then we see the administration pitting men against women and promoting laws which give women free medical care which is not offered to men. Are women the only humans which should have free care? It somewhat strikes me as greedy when a family with child who has diabetes, for example, has to pay a co-pay AND be subject to a deductible of at least $500 to keep him alive, but a women who want OPTIONAL, (yes optional because there are alternatives) contraceptives for their convenience forces employers who object on moral grounds, to pay for them.
Then when people disagree they try to silence them. With all this talk of equality, pray tell, why are women superior to men and children and other women who are subject to co-pays and deductibles when obtaining life sustaining medicine?
And that's not all, they are so protective of PP that they don't even allow a civil discussion about other providers.
I'm tired of this pretend war on on women. It's a war on whoever disagrees. There is no respect for conscience; everyone must stand and salute our, I almost said "Great White Father in Washington" but that would be politically incorrect and probably label me as racist. (BTW, before I get accused, my roommate in the Army for a time was a black fellow for whom I had great respect.)
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No, I don't, but I assume, perhaps naively, that everyone who post here is doing so in good faith. So I try to acknowledge that and hope that they reciprocate.
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No, I didn't look, I honestly didn't know we had them. I think I'll make an appt at the Elizabeth one (next town to my job) and see how it is there.
Last edited by MariyaNJ; 11/22/12 01:14 AM.
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I have been away for most of the past week and, as a result, saw only a snippet or two of the posts which were deleted from this thread for lack of charity. The thread isn't going to be unlocked and I applaud whomever of my fellow moderators locked it - but, I bothered to unlock long enough to make this point ... should anyone venture to again post the types of uncharitable personal attacks that were posted to this thread, I will guarantee that their posting career here will be short-lived.
Many years,
Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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