www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy How common are 'said' Liturgies

In all my years, I have never been to a Divine Liturgy, either in the Orthodox or the Greek Catholic world, that was not fully chanted.

How common would 'said' Liturgies be in the US & Canada?

Do any of you have experience of the Orthodox offering them?

When I lived in buffalo several of the UGCC parishes had "said" liturgies. My memory is a bit fuzzy on this, but I recall attending a BCC parish that had one too.

I've never been to one, and I've been to several parishes, Ruthenian and Ukrainian) in California. I suspect that they are extremely uncommon here on the West Coast, but I've heard that in many places they are common. I really can't imagine a spoken liturgy.

I have been to one on the East Coast, at a UGCC parish. It was gut-wrenching.
Lord have mercy.

I've seen them in every Greco-Catholic jurisdiction I have attended (UGCC, BCCA, Melkite, Romanian) with the exception of the Russian Catholics. Amongst non-Greco Eastern Catholics I have seen them in the Maronite, Armenian, and Malabar churches. Amongst the Orthodox I have seen them with the Greeks, Serbs, and also in the Armenian Apostolic Church and the "Western Rite". If I had to judge the greatest frequency of "recited" or non-sung liturgies that I have attended, it would be the Maronites.

In a perverse way, I'm glad to know the Orthodox can be guilty too, as it means Greek Catholics are not the only patsies to Latinisation (or Westernisation).

Sometimes a recited liturgy is a lesser of evils, as when I was once at a BCCA liturgy with a cacophony of singing pre- and post-RDL settings and translations at the same time. I've rarely heard anything less edifying. Also some monastic rules, especially for smaller sketes, call for reading if cantors or "singers" are not present.

I haven't been in such a situation, so forgive my ignorance; but it can be legit to celebrate the Liturgy said in the event of having no cantor?

Let me explain why I am asking.

I have bi-ritual faculty, and work in a (Roman) Catholic college, so tend to celebrate the Latin Rite only when at work. The thing is, I would like to observe my own Feasts with Divine Liturgy, yet would likely be doing so with only one or two curious Roman Catholics participating. In such a situation, it would seem appropriate simply to say - as opposed to chant - the Liturgy. But I am loath to do this, as I don't want to contradict my own tradition.

Also some monastic rules, especially for smaller sketes, call for reading if cantors or "singers" are not present.

Isn't that uncantillated recitation (reciting on a pitch) though? That's not what is usually meant by "said" Divine Liturgies though, right?

Yeah, this is the case at St. Josaphat UGCC Cathedral here, the English DLs primarily are said, with some parts sung, like the Thrice-Holy Hymn, the Cherubikon, and the like, but yeah, I'm not entirely thrilled with "said" Liturgies, considering they break from the real traditions of Greco-Catholicism. Also, I don't think they use incense at St. Josaphat, for whatever cases, either, which also seems to break the tradition of the Eastern Rite.

That depends on your interpretation of what "not sung", "without singing" or "read" is from the Slavonic.

Although what bothers me is that the Alleluia and the Prokeimon aren't sung in the UGCC, and even in the RC, you can't get away without singing those, or otherwise you'd have to omit them. Well, the Responsorial Psalm in the RC you can recite, but the Alleluia is always sung...for the UGCC not to do this, heh, it breaks from Catholic tradition altogether.

I suspect you are seeing the exception that proves the rule .

The Liturgy is beautifully sung by the congregation at St. Vladimir Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church of Scranton PA. Come see, hear and sing with us.
Oops - the commute from Scotland is rather long. LOL

Pavloosh - we sing the Liturgy every week too - and it's a small congregation with no choir .

Normally the Epistle and the 'Propers' are chanted , and the Epistle is repeated in English [ read not chanted ] and the Gospel is chanted in English. The only thing that's routinely said is the Pre Communion Prayer .