www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Orthodoxy and the Roman Papacy: Ut Unum Sint

Forgetting about their Head and Ours?

Well, if some can go home to the Vatican Mount and chip the mountain of Pastor Aeternus away down to a molehill, irenic ecclesiastical (as opposed to, for instance, social or political pursuits, which I have no problem with collaboration on) pursuits might have some aims worthy of support. In the meantime, keep the powder dry.

Your problem is an unwillingness to discuss options. There is an ongoing discussion of the meaning and exercise of primacy, as well as the relationship of primacy to conciliarity. So the reduction of everything to a "repudiation" of Pastor Aeternus shows a certain lack of both imagination and will.

These are the hallmarks of humanity, are they not?

A "problem" I share with Popes St. Athanasius and St. Cyril, among others.
Yes. We all don't have to come to the arm wrestling matches between Old and New Rome.
Patriarch Sophronius showed such a lack of imagination. Pope Honorius and EP Sergius certainly had the will.

Lack of imagination and will. Hmmm. Sounds a lot like the limbo the Vatican has put its sui juris churches in on their married priests, among other issues. We're waiting to see its actions catch up with its words in repudiating its past on such issues. So far Pastor Aeternus is practicing what it preaches, and we have no need of another gospel.

Isa is probably going to faint but he is right in this case. Until Rome can unambigously give us meaningful autonomy without interference the Orthodox have no reason to believe anything Rome says regarding reunion and respect or Eastern tradition.

Agreed. The Patriarch has offered some flowery and charitable ecumenical language. But the reality of the situation is much different.

But you know part of it is self responsibility in starting to live as who you are. Your Bishops and laity alike.

After centuries of isolation from the east and domination in the west, the Church of Rome needs to develop a new role for herself in relationship to Orthodoxy which has preserved an authentic ecclesiastical tradition of national autonomous churches. The western churches are not used to this ecclesiastical structure, and are uneasy with it. Not to worry. Melkite Catholics have led the way, and will continue to lead the way in making a strong stance against this papal overbearance; thus, paving the way for eventual union among the apostolic churches. On the other hand, the east must respect the validity of the western structures that have developed from ancient times as well, and try not to impose theirs as the only way, IMHO.

It's actually up to us to insist upon this. But too many of our bishops are enamored of the status quo, and many, in their heart of hearts, like being uniates.

I no longer accept this criticism, not when the deck is stacked by Rome appointing bishops willing to maintain the status quo.

You're a deacon--so you're at the beck and call of your bishop. But the laity are not, and should be standing up for the fullness of the Tradition.

The laity can only do so much. Only the bishops can mandate standards and hold priests accountable, or ordain married men, or elect and install their brother bishops or primates.

I think that the laity have an important role to play. If we lay Greek Catholics raise our youth (the future deacons, priests, and bishops) in the fullness of our patrimony we can help shape the future of our Churches. So, it starts with us living our faith to the fullness.

We, the laity, need to support our priests who share the vision of Greek Catholicism as a witness to unity with the Orthodox Church and encourage them.


I pray our Patriarchs, Metropolitans, and Bishops continue (or start in some cases) the revival of Greek Catholicism and continue to stand up for our rights as Churches.

This is true, Nelson. As mentioned, we should sway some from the Latin Church to the direction of the Eastern Rite, and make sure that they understand that we could use new faces in our congregations, and make sure they understand that we are just as much Catholic as they are. This has been a tough sell for quite a few, but we have to reach to the "Other Rite/Other Lung" if you will, in order to really evangelize in a hurry.