www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Books Western Influence on Eastern (Especially Russian Orthodox)

Hi,

I am looking for some good books that cover western influence on the devotional life, liturgical practices (chant etc) on the Eastern Orthodox. Especially from the period of 1600-1900. I was hoping someone might have some suggestions for me.

History is rife with examples of Western Influence on Russian Orthodoxy - starting with Peter the Great (maybe before)

When a church becomes a part of the state (in any form including atheism) then bad things begin to happen.

The Bolsheviks reaked havoc - and the Russian Orthodox splintered into many different groups - some still polemically persecuted by each "branch" of this new Russian Orthodoxy.

The Communisit party completely infiltrated the Russian Orthodox Church and even had "priest spies" both here and everywhere.

It's still a mess - and polemics abound

One major polemic discussion never solved is the fact that the Russian Orthodox Church was THE JURISDICTION IN THE USA ... all other jurisdictions were to fall under the Russians.

Of course when each new ethnic group came - each group wanted their own ghettos - and did not want to come together - an amazing response among so called CHRISTIANS - to excommunicate each other and call some among them - unworthy and not legitimate.

Orthodoxy has suffered in America - without immigration and ethnicity - the numbers would have dwindled to nothing.

In truth - Orthodoxy - should be much more influential and prominent in the USA

Well, not sure about Russian Orthodox, but I know that there'll no doubt be a few Middle Eastern Orthodox churches gaining ground here in America with new immigrants, especially the Coptic and Antiochan Orthodox Churches, with Morsi gaining power, and with all that junk happening in Syria currently. Although I'm sure there'll no doubt be SOME Russian Orthodox from that part of the world coming here, too, from those parts of the world.

I am still looking for books that cover this topic. I am not particularly interested in conflicts in the new world but in the old country between 1600 and 1900.

Bob, thank you!!

I hope I did not start it ... I was merely trying to explain what I have learned of Orthodoxy.

One of the tenets - the early ICanons was that there would only be ONE BISHOP in charge of an area (defining the areas has proved difficult)

My post may have been construed to think that I was talking bad about the various ethnic groups but I was simply stating that
when WE (I am guilty also) persecute and excommunicate and create anathema's ... we are being unchristian.

In the USA - since the Russians were first - the thinking is that the Russian Orthodox Church should have been THE ORTHODOX CHURCH in charge of the TERRITORY of the USA.

Since everyone has their own brand of religion and apparently humans need to cling to their culture no matter what - then discord happened. I am guilty of this brothers ...

But I wish that it were not so ... I wish that the rules and regulations established to assist with orderly evangelization did not create the polemics that it does.

I should have said "The state of orthodoxy that exists in the USA (AND THAT INCLUDES US UNIATES) in my humble opinion is an absolute mess and is unchristian at it's core."

That is a strong statement but alas it is my strong opinion.

CHRIST IS BORN! GLORIFY HIM!

So, if you're saying this right, haydukovich, that's how the OCA became what it is? I remember hearing that it was Tsar Nicholas II himself that even built St. Theodosius here in Cleveland's Tremont neighborhood, or ordered it built here, not sure if I got my history straight about it. Surely Joe in Slavland can perhaps tell the real story. I'm sure the OCA was born off the Russian Orthodox Churches during the last century here in the US since the Soviet takeover, but, how it really got its start, I'm not sure.

Well ... the OCA was apparently recognized by the Russian Orthodox Church in 1970 which is very recent history.

The OCA also had droves of Eastern Catholics convert to Orthodoxy (over the married priest issue - much like the Carpatho Russians) ... and in some cases you see the ruthenian musical influence in some of the churches

The truth about the Russian Orthodox Church is that is was in absolute chaos around the Russian Revolution - then the "state" tried to manipulate it .. then outlaw it - the Germans came through during WWII and allowed the church to operate hoping to win over the populace - then when the Germans were defeated all hell broke loose - a lot of priests were killed (bishops too)

The KGB inflitrated the church to find out all they could about everyone - I believe there is even evidence of spies in the USA during the Cold War.

One church that was a church of the Bishop was confiscated by a very popular Orthodox Religion I won't mention and the Bishop wss basically ignored and his branch died on the vine.

The Russian church is still suffering from all this fall out - God knows what Putin is doing to them ????

So the OCA could be viewed as a weird occurence of a weird event.
There is ROCOR, Russian Orthodox in Resistance and many more Russian churches bastardized by this process.
The fact that they achieved Canonical status so fast defies history - the Serbian Orthodox Church took hundreds of years before it was recognized by Greece - and they are practically on the same border!

Absolute Chaos - so drink Abolute Vodka!

I hope that does not spark a small war ... I just report what I've heard - correct me if I am wrong.