www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Death of Mary

17. In the liturgical books which deal with the feast either of the dormition or of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin there are expressions that agree in testifying that, when the Virgin Mother of God passed from this earthly exile to heaven, what happened to her sacred body was, by the decree of divine Providence, in keeping with the dignity of the Mother of the Word Incarnate, and with the other privileges she had been accorded. Thus, to cite an illustrious example, this is set forth in that sacramentary which Adrian I, our predecessor of immortal memory, sent to the Emperor Charlemagne. These words are found in this volume: "Venerable to us, O Lord, is the festivity of this day on which the holy Mother of God suffered temporal death, but still could not be kept down by the bonds of death, who has begotten your Son our Lord incarnate from herself."(11)

18. What is here indicated in that sobriety characteristic of the Roman liturgy is presented more clearly and completely in other ancient liturgical books. To take one as an example, the Gallican sacramentary designates this privilege of Mary's as "an ineffable mystery all the more worthy of praise as the Virgin's Assumption is something unique among men." And, in the Byzantine liturgy, not only is the Virgin Mary's bodily Assumption connected time and time again with the dignity of the Mother of God, but also with the other privileges, and in particular with the virginal motherhood granted her by a singular decree of God's Providence. "God, the King of the universe, has granted you favors that surpass nature. As he kept you a virgin in childbirth, thus he has kept your body incorrupt in the tomb and has glorified it by his divine act of transferring it from the tomb."(12)

I think these words from Pope Pius XII, in Munificentissimus Deus should be enough to make clear what the Catholic Church teaches on the Dormition. If anyone wishes to read the whole document, here's the Vatican [vatican.va] LINK. It even has some interesting things to say about how the magisterium functions.

Of course many Latins will point out that the pope did not define whether or not Mary died in the section of the document that contains the actual dogmatic decree itself, and they argue that he was silent upon that particular issue because he was leaving that question open for further development.

Although they like to think of themselves as "legion", I don't think there are "many" who understand the Dormition as precluding death. Yet, I agree that there are always "those who", no matter what. I think most rational people would understand that the completion of one's life includes bodily death, as the Pope makes clear before he makes a final definition of the dogma.

Thank you for the moderation, brother Neil. I did not intend the thread to be a free-for-all against Catholic Answers, but merely mentioned it as the backdrop of the topic.

Regarding the death of Mary, I had stated in CAF (Catholic Answers Forums, for those unfamiliar with it) that I can accept the possibility that Mary might have received the Grace of Immortality at the point of death. But the Latin Catholic was claiming that Mary received it already at the IC. I pointed out that since mortality is part of human nature as God created it (according to Pope St. Athanasius), if Mary was immortal, then Christ did not truly receive our human nature, which borders on heterodoxy.

The possibility that Mary received Immortality at the point of death and thus never died can be a legitimate theologoumenon (comments?), but to claim that Mary was Immortal when she was created by God can easily lead to heresy.

I have a question on the Grace of Immortality. According to Pope St. Athanasius, humanity (Adam and Eve) were created mortal by God (i.e., to be mortal is part of human nature), but were immortal by Grace. St. Paul states that at the Resurrection, we are [i]transformed[/u] in immortality. My question is, will our resurrected state be "better" than the pre-Fall state? I mean, will we have an immortal Nature at the Resurrection, as distinct from Adam and Even who were mortal by Nature, but immortal by Grace?

I understand that on a tactile level, there is no difference between being immortal by Nature and being immortal by Grace.

Blessings

We were having a discussion on the IC, and a Latin Catholic asserted that Mary did not die, that Mary received the Grace of Immortality at her IC, that those who said otherwise were "speaking out of place," and that "no one speaks about her death." I responded that Mary did die, affirmed that the dogma of the IC makes no such statement, that his statement was very condescending to non-Latin Catholics, and that the old Catholic Encyclopedia and the old Baltimore Catechism explicitly describes the Assumption as the taking up of Mary body and soul to heaven after her DEATH. I also provided a point-by-point challenge to his theoretical rationale for belief in the immortality of the Theotokos.

Next thing you know, I was suspended and all my posts were deleted.

That is very odd. I have seen many threads over there where the Latin consensus was in agreement with the Eastern understanding of the Dormition of the Most Holy Theotokos. Things must be changing. I know that many Eastern Catholics and Orthodox were banned from that site....sometimes without reason or label.