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Would a Mormon who had been baptized by immersion in the name of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost (when they were eight years old) have to be re-baptized?

Michael,

The Catholic Church considers [vatican.va] baptism conferred by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also called Mormons, to be invalid.

The reasons for this have been carefully explained [ewtn.com] by Archbishop Luis Ladaria SJ. [catholic-hierarchy.org]

In short, the most important reason is that Mormons and Catholics have hugely different views on the Most Holy Trinity and on baptism itself.

So, if a Mormon as you describe wishes to become Catholic, he or she must be baptized (not rebaptized, since the Mormon baptism is invalid).

I cannot answer for the Orthodox Churches. Maybe someone else on the forum can?

Is it possible for someone who hasn't had a valid baptism, and is guilty of material (but not formal) heresy, to somehow bear the fruits of the Holy Ghost?

Remember the Mormon Holy Ghost has a wife and is a god in his own right.

I would add that the Orthodox Church also considers baptisms preformed in the LDS church to be invalid. Mormons converting to Orthodoxy are re-baptized.


I think the underlying problem is that the Mormon concept of God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Ghost) is radically different than Orthodox, Catholic, and mainline Protestant Christianity.

A good, straight forward, but at times a rather blunt and uncompromising, discussion on Orthodoxy and Mormonism can be found at Ancient Faith Radio. The host is Kevin Allen and he interviews two former Mormons, now Orthodox Christians. Also, it is a live show, so people called in with their questions. Mormonism and Orthodox Christianity [ancientfaith.com]

Actually, that's not what they believe.

In their belief system, it's necessary to have been incarnated, and to have a body to be a god in your own right, have a wife, and beget spirit-chidren.

They don't believe The Holy Ghost has ever been incarnated, has a body, or has a wife.

I know their beliefs are very different from main stream Christian beliefs, but the people themselves don't seem that different, and that's why I asked whether it's possible for someone who was raised with (materially) heretical beliefs, and has never had a valid baptism, to still have any geniune fruits of The Spirit?

P.S. My dad (who's 80 years old, has had a stroke, and doesn't always know what he's saying) once mistook a Mormon for a Catholic priest.

After he left (probably because he was very nice, polite, mild-mannered, and kept talking about "The Holy Ghost"), my dad referred to the man himself as "The Holy Ghost."

I recently asked my dad what he was thinking and feeling when he said that, but it's been awhile now, and he doesn't even remember the incident.

I do.

I remember the impression that man made on dad, and I know the impression he and some of his co-religionists have made on me, and I'm trying to understand it.

Is it possible that my Catholic father sensed something of The Holy Ghost in this Mormon, even if their theology is as wrong as I tend to think it is (and as you all would agree it is), and even if his (the Mormon's) baptism was invalid?

My understanding is that we went from conditionally baptizing Mormon's ("If this person hasn't already been baptized, I baptize him/her in the name of..") to baptizing them (i.e. without the words "if this person hasn't already been baptized.")

When we did that, were we saying that all individual Mormons are without the Holy Ghost, unChristian, and no part of the Church?

Is prevenient grace an operation of the Holy Ghost, and could that have anything to do with the answer to my question?

I think that your father felt something good, and all good is from the One True God, in the help he received from this Mormon. Mormons tend be really nice people and Christians can learn a lot from their family values.


All religions and mankind have, what St. Justin the Martyr called, the seed of the Logos. From this understanding, Mormons have the seed of the Word of God within them.

Orthodox and Catholic Christians should not speculate on who does or does not have the Holy Ghost. We know where the Church is but we don't speculate on where it is not. Though, non-Christians are not part of the Church i.e the Body of Christ.

Mormonism is not Christian by any means, and I don't mean to sound harsh, but it is the truth. While, they came out of protestant Christianity they believe in multiple Gods making them another religion. When they come to Orthodox and Catholic Christianity they are just like a Jewish, Muslim, or Hindu converts.

We should pray for them and their conversion to Christianity, just like we should for all none Christians, because God wants all men to come to the knowledge of the Truth. Still, I would say that individual Mormons who live a good life and don't know the True Gospel of Jesus Christ can be saved. God is merciful and loves mankind and I would never speculate on who is "saved" and who is "unsaved." Such speculations take us away from living our own life of peace and repentance before the Lord.

Thank you.