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Originally Posted by Latin Catholic
The idea of an Eastern Catholic as Roman Pontiff goes back at least to the novel The Shoes of the Fisherman (1963) by Morris West. It's a wonderful idea, but not very realistic.

It goes back to Pope Zozimus and 11 other Greeks and Syrians who were Popes of Rome after the formation of liturgical rites as we know them today.

Also the Armenian Catholic Patriarch was a close second to Blessed John XXIII in the voting.


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I don't want to be a downer here but we should all pray that the Holy Spirit guide the college to vote for the man that God has chosen to lead the catholic communion. Then we should pray that he will lead His church and bring it back to union that it once had.

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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by Latin Catholic
The idea of an Eastern Catholic as Roman Pontiff goes back at least to the novel The Shoes of the Fisherman (1963) by Morris West. It's a wonderful idea, but not very realistic.

It goes back to Pope Zozimus and 11 other Greeks and Syrians who were Popes of Rome after the formation of liturgical rites as we know them today.
but not the rite/sui juris system as you know them today.

Abp. Zosimus, born in Italy, wouldn't have been much different at the time than your Popes Pius XI and Paul VI-both Ambrosian, not Roman, rite-of the previous century. The Constantinopolitan rite wasn't introduced into Italy until the seventh century. At the time of Abp. Zosimus' birth, c. 387 at the latest, Constantinople had no jurisdiction, and the DL of St. John Chrysostom hadn't been introduced yet (in fact, at the time New Rome wasn't in communion with Old Rome). If he was born before 381, Constantinople wouldn't have had autocephaly.

Popes Theodore I and John VI would come closest to fitting your bill, given their translations from Jerusalem and Ephesus.

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Well, regardless of who's elected the new Pope, I'm sure it won't take much input to know that in these secular times in society, the next Pope will need to step up to all the wrong in the Western world. Having the government force us to go against our moral beliefs and conscience with the HHS mandate, with having to wed same gender couples, etc... I hope that the next Pontiff will put pressure on governments in the world to abide by the moral beliefs of all. Also, I'm hopeful that the next Pontiff will share the same leadership, dedication, and vision that the late Pope John Paul II had for the Catholic Church.

After all, it was Pope John Paul II that put pressure on governments of Eastern Europe, and contributed to the weakening, demise, and collapse of the Soviet Empire. We can only hope the next Pope will put this pressure on other governments to make sure the unborn have a chance to live their lives, and to preserve traditional marriages, and not to force us against these doctrines. I'm sure the Conclave of Cardinals will indeed make the right decision, and know who would be the best for times such as these.

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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by Latin Catholic
The idea of an Eastern Catholic as Roman Pontiff goes back at least to the novel The Shoes of the Fisherman (1963) by Morris West. It's a wonderful idea, but not very realistic.

It goes back to Pope Zozimus and 11 other Greeks and Syrians who were Popes of Rome after the formation of liturgical rites as we know them today.

Also the Armenian Catholic Patriarch was a close second to Blessed John XXIII in the voting.
Fr Deacon,

you're of course right that there have been Greek and Syrian popes in the past. I was thinking more in terms of the idea of an Eastern Catholic Pope as part of modern popular culture. I think Morris West's book and the film based on it played an important part in popularizing this idea. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

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Originally Posted by IAlmisry
but not the rite/sui juris system as you know them today.

Abp. Zosimus, born in Italy, wouldn't have been much different at the time than your Popes Pius XI and Paul VI-both Ambrosian, not Roman, rite-of the previous century. The Constantinopolitan rite wasn't introduced into Italy until the seventh century. At the time of Abp. Zosimus' birth, c. 387 at the latest, Constantinople had no jurisdiction, and the DL of St. John Chrysostom hadn't been introduced yet (in fact, at the time New Rome wasn't in communion with Old Rome). If he was born before 381, Constantinople wouldn't have had autocephaly.

Popes Theodore I and John VI would come closest to fitting your bill, given their translations from Jerusalem and Ephesus.

I think the Byzantine Rite came with Belisarius, but yes Pope St Theodore I is closest.


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Originally Posted by AllCatholic
Originally Posted by ag_vn
Originally Posted by danman916
Originally Posted by Pavloosh
The time has come for an Eastern Catholic to be elected Pope!
That would be wonderful. However, is there any Eastern Bishop, who is cardinal, who is under 70 years old?
It would be nice if our next pope was a bit younger, so that he would be around for a while.

The Major Archbishops of the Syro-Malabar and the Syro-Malankara Catholic Churches are under 70 years old. The Maronite Patriarch Mar Bechara Boutros al Rahi is a little over 70 years old, but he looks younger.

I am confused. I am still fairly new (4 years) to the Byzantine Rite, so my question may be misplaced. I thought Eastern Catholics considered themselves independent, i.e., they are their own Church who are in agreement with the Pope and Western Church, but they do not consider themselves organizationally part of the Roman Rite. In that case, they couldn't be the Pope, could they? It sounds like the ones mentioned above are not Cardinals.

The Syro-Malabar and the Syro-Malankara Major Archbishops and the Maronite Patriarch are all cardinals and will be voting at the upcoming conclave. They are also eligible to be elected Pope.

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I have to admit that, from an Orthodox perspective, I find the role of Eastern and Oriental Catholic cardinals electing the head of a sister church odd... Or are they not actually doing this, but choosing a bishop to have universal supremacy over all Catholics, regardless of rite? Perhaps I've not grasped the relationship between the papacy and the sui juris churches.

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Originally Posted by AllCatholic
Originally Posted by ag_vn
Originally Posted by danman916
Originally Posted by Pavloosh
The time has come for an Eastern Catholic to be elected Pope!
That would be wonderful. However, is there any Eastern Bishop, who is cardinal, who is under 70 years old?
It would be nice if our next pope was a bit younger, so that he would be around for a while.

The Major Archbishops of the Syro-Malabar and the Syro-Malankara Catholic Churches are under 70 years old. The Maronite Patriarch Mar Bechara Boutros al Rahi is a little over 70 years old, but he looks younger.

I am confused. I am still fairly new (4 years) to the Byzantine Rite, so my question may be misplaced. I thought Eastern Catholics considered themselves independent, i.e., they are their own Church who are in agreement with the Pope and Western Church, but they do not consider themselves organizationally part of the Roman Rite. In that case, they couldn't be the Pope, could they? It sounds like the ones mentioned above are not Cardinals.

There is no monolithic uniformity of opinion on the topic. Many try (hint: they freak out about the topic) ... but no. :-)

Humbly, by "Roman Rite," I think you mean Latin Church. If so, that is true to a certain degree.

The papacy in my opinion, being a universal position, ideally should have universal candidates. An EC pope with some imagination could solve administrative issues.

Others will tell you it goes against certain ecclesiological theories they favor. Understandable to a degree. I don't think history bears out ecclesiastic rigidity ... but I have to go to work now, so unfortunately I can't explicate this further.

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An EC pope with some imagination could solve administrative issues.

I think this raises an important issue. A pope with a gift for administration is greatly needed - a gift some predecessors have lacked.

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Originally Posted by Booth
Originally Posted by AllCatholic
Originally Posted by Pavloosh
The time has come for an Eastern Catholic to be elected Pope!
I am confused. I am still fairly new (4 years) to the Byzantine Rite, so my question may be misplaced. I thought Eastern Catholics considered themselves independent, i.e., they are their own Church who are in agreement with the Pope and Western Church, but they do not consider themselves organizationally part of the Roman Rite. In that case, they couldn't be the Pope, could they? It sounds like the ones mentioned above are not Cardinals.

There is no monolithic uniformity of opinion on the topic. Many try (hint: they freak out about the topic) ... but no. :-)

Humbly, by "Roman Rite," I think you mean Latin Church. If so, that is true to a certain degree.

The papacy in my opinion, being a universal position, ideally should have universal candidates. An EC pope with some imagination could solve administrative issues.

Others will tell you it goes against certain ecclesiological theories they favor. Understandable to a degree. I don't think history bears out ecclesiastic rigidity ... but I have to go to work now, so unfortunately I can't explicate this further.
Of course, if the Italo-Greek Albanian sui juris could have its see in Rome, as it should be, the problem of Latin rite and universal pontiff could be solved. After all, the Vatican has had three sui juris patriarchs in Alexandria, four in Antioch and two in Jerusalem. If the Latin rite can have a patriarch in Jerusalem, why can't the Romanians, for instance, have one in Rome?

The bishoprick of Rome has been abolished in the Vatican in favor of a universal super-bishop. Hence why the strain causing this retirement. What if the cardinals elected another "supreme pontiff," and left Abp. Benedict XVI to tend to the Roman diocese?

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That would cause a certain amount of problems - as at the age of 75 an RC Bishop is required to submit his resignation to the Pontiff - this of course does not mean that it has to be accepted smile

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[Linked Image]

Now wouldn't that be somethin' !

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Originally Posted by Logos - Alexis
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Well, I'm sure Patriarch Sviatoslav Shevchuk would deserve a promotion. After all, he's right about the same age as Pope John Paul II was when he was elected, iirc. Can't really remember now. After all, I'm not sure if Patriarch would be the UGCC equivalent of a Cardinal or not, when it comes to Eastern vs. Latin ranks. Good question there.


Actually, Patriarch Sviatoslav isn't a cardinal (unfortunately),
...

Oh! Sure you want to go there? grin

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Originally Posted by Apotheoun
The conclave should elect Patriarch Kirill of Moscow as the next pope.

grin

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