www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Kissing of the resposed at funerals

Dear Friends,

As this was a week for funerals for me, I came across a Russian language site (Old Believer) that explains the rite of kissing the reposed at the end of the services in Church (oldorthodox.narod.ru).

The actual practice of kissing the reposed underlines the truth that we are alive in Christ and are united in him, whether in this world or the next.

Some areas have the practice of kissing the reposed on the mouth . . .(no, thank you!) Or else, on the forehead where the ribband is located etc.

One begins the rite by kissing the Cross before the coffin.

Or else, an icon of the Mother of God is placed there and one kisses the Foot of Christ and the Right Hand of the Mother of God (if I capitalize too much, it is a Kyivan Church tradition to capitalize the letters of all words having anything to do with God).

One makes three bows or prostrations as part of this rite with the Sign of the Cross to the following prayers:

First Bow: Dear Servant of God (name) forgive me all and everything for the sake of Christ!

Second Bow: May God forgive and bless you!

Third Bow: If you may, pray for me to the Lord God!

Reposed monastics are never kissed on any part except their Paraman and Cross.

Alex

There should be no kissing of any dead people at any time. If the flu pandemic of 1918 which killed up to 18,000,000 people was not a good enough lesson, then think about the recent SARS outbreak in Toronto. The disease spread most when people attended the funeral of a couple at a RC church. The people attending the funeral kissed the two individuals who died of SARS. The rest is history. Viruses, bacteria, and fungi are best spread through kissing (people or other objects). DO NOT DO IT !!!!!!!!!!!

I always thought kissing the dead was part of the Eastern church customs. In mortuary school that is what we learned!

As far as kissing the dead as a public health risk, I just want to add my two cents worth. I'm a Mortician, and I don't find any public health risk with doing that. I have many families kiss their loved one goodbye. With the chemicals, and procedures used in the modern-day embalming process, most germs and bacteria are killed. And since most bodies are public viewed, they are required to be embalmed. Now don't get me wrong, if one knows that the deceased died of a highly infectious disease then use your common sense, and best judgement before kissing them then!

ByzantineLearner's post makes good sense.

I kiss the hands or cheeks of my deceased loved ones at the viewing. My relatives are funeral directors in my small town. I'm sure they would caution against this practice if it in any way could cause harm.

Paul

Dear Friends,

I've kissed plenty of cold girls in my time, let me tell you . . . or not . . .

But the rite here calls for kissing a Cross or Icon and then the body . . .

I'm too squeamish for that in any event and will just bow to the body.

Alex

I'm with Alex on that one.

Eeewww.

Why would you think it is gross to kiss the body? To me that sounds like the most loving thing one could do. I touched my grandpa when he was in the coffin. If I could have reached over I probably would have kissed him too but I was small.

anastasios

Yeah, don't receive Holy Communion or kiss icons either...

The grieving process for Tsar Alexander III went on for something like two weeks, and so Nicholas (and his brothers), his new wife, Alexandra, and the Empress Maria Fyodorovna were forced by protocol to kiss the decaying corpse at each memorial service. Towards the end of the fortnight, the odor of the corpse became nearly intolerable.

Logos Teen

Dear Alex,

Your humor has reached a new height!!

Paul

You are correct in stating that modern embalming procedures do kill almost all pathogens (deadly microorganisms)including the AIDS/HIV virus if the patient had the disease prior to dying.

As you state, using your best judgement is the key. If there is a SARS or Flu epidemic occuring in your region, then caution by not touching or kissing the body (or icons as one member posted). The reason is that even if the embalmers do a good job (and I'm sure they do)infected people could kiss or touch the body and pass the pathogens on to you when you do the same.

I may seem to be be overly cautious to some members, but if you were living in Toronto during the SARS outbreak, you know what I mean

Very interesting topic. I never would have thought to ask. Anyway, there must be a special protocol for approaching and kissing the relics of Saints that are still "touchable" in their coffins (reliquaries). I don't know of any such relics in the U.S.A. except possibly Saint John (Maximovitch) of Shanghai and San Francisco and St. Alexis Toth, both Orthodox. In my journeys I have venerated the remains of Saints John Neumann, Katherine Drexel, Frances Cabrini, Rose Duchesne and Elizabeth Ann Seton. Of course, their relics were sealed in altars and you could not thouch the actual remains. I think the case is different with some Orthodox monks in Europe and Mt. Athos where you can actually touch the relics themselves. Does anyone have knowledge of this?
Silouan, monk

This of course is complete nonsense--junk science in the worst sort of way. Great attention to the facts would reveal that those who contracted SARS did so from the LIVING who happened to be at the funeral. A dead body, particularly in North America today, and especially when embalmed, poses no epidemological threat.

Alex,

This surprises me! What did you do at Kyr Isidore's funeral in July? Did you not kiss the hand that had blessed so many so richly?

Here at the Sheptytsky Institute, just six weeks ago, our first doctoral student, himself a physician and a protodeacon in the OCA, defended his first-class dissertation on the pastoral riches of the Byzantine funeral rites, with special mention for how salutary the Final Kiss is for most people on a psychological and spiritual level. I think, in a culture that is as death-denying as ours, the more we can do to reclaim death the better off the living will be.

Incidentally, I write this on the first anniversary of my paternal grandfather's falling asleep in the Lord...

Dear Adam,

I did kiss the body of my bishop who baptized and chrismated me and who married me.

But I was literally sick afterwards.

And I'm not saying that this shouldn't be the practice.

Just that there are some people who are squeamish about it.

Sorry, but that is one of those things I have very little control over.

I guess that would disqualify me from the Sheptytsky Institute, eh?

Alex