www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Icons & Iconography Kissing icons before receiving Holy Communion

Dear Tony,

The Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada is composed largely of former Greek Catholics and their descendants, as you know.

The Greek Catholics were used to kneeling twice during the Sunday Liturgy and so this Church continued to allow it - once during the Great Entrance and once during the Eucharistic Canon - disallowing kneeling during Holy Communion.

Alex

Alex,

What surprises me is the apparent (and unfortunate) shock some experience when they behold pews in an Orthodox temple or the faithful kneeling on a Sunday. Pews seem to have become endemic in North American Orthodoxy except among some Russians and other Slav communities and kneeling varies as well.

Tony

Hi Father Michael,

At my (Ruthenian) church, some folks do venerate the festal icon while in the communion line... I personally don't see why it would be a problem, unless you're taking a long time and holding up the line.

This argument reminds me of the one modern Roman liturgiterrorists give for removing the Tabernacle from the altar-- "It's distracting from the Eucharist."

Dear Sainclare, there is a difference between liturgists and terrorists. You can negotiate with terrorists.

The only rule I've ever been given is not to venerate the icons once the priest has brought the Holy Gifts onto the solea. We have no need of icons at that point, because the Lord is physically present.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Hi Diak,

Christ is among us!

Yes, that's true... terrorists are more reasonable and inflict less damage. :-)

BTW, cool picture in your profile... where are you in it?

I know it is the custom at jordanville to kiss the icons during the communion of the clergy. The idea behind this, i was told, was that one is making peace with things Heavenly and Earthly (you conclude the kissing of icons with the usual bow to those standing on the south and north side of the temple). We used to do this before communion in brampton but it became too distracting with so many children. We have since adopted the Old-Ritualist practise of placing a large brass cross on an analogion in the center of the church. As the faithful approach for communion they kiss the cross, a very ancient custom and sign of peace.

As for the liturgist commment, I find the only thing worse than persons (especially clergy) who know nothing about liturgy are persons (especially clergy) who think they know something about liturgy, but in fact don't. This is how tradition gets messed up, people thinking too much, that and lack of detailed books and ruberics.
leave it to PK to be so anti-clerical.

Slopiness is a sign of disrespect for the actions you are performing.

Priests,

do you say the prayers befor the iconostasis befor liturgy with REVERANCE and FEAR, begging GOD to make you worthy and give you strength to perform His task?

What i find disgusting is rushing a liturgy so the parcking lot will be free in time for the next liturgy. (I won't open the whole calendar issue).

ok ilya, enough for the evening.

Gavshev

Dear Gavshev,

Could you comment some more on the use of the Cross?

How is it placed and how do people approach it to kiss it? How fascinating!

The Old Sarum Rite prescribed the distribution of Holy Communion with the priest standing beneath the Cross on top of the Royal Doors of the Rood Screen or Iconostasis.

The meaning of this is that we are communing of the Fruit of the Tree of Life.

Also, are laity allowed to wear their neck crosses on top of their clothing? I have heard that the Orthodox discourage that, that only priests may do so. (?)

Alex

Here in Grand Rapids only a minority of people kiss the icons on the tetrapod, and then only one or two kiss any other icons in the church.

I was told not to kiss any icons after receiving communion. I think some have become confused because some parishioners do not receive the Divine Gifts frequently and when they refrain from receiving, they kiss the icons upon leaving the temple.

One note on the monastery in Arizona: they are among the strictist in the GOA.

With best wishes to all!
Stefan-Ivan

Dear Alex,

In the Old Rite, the practice is for the cross to be venerated before communion, usually in the priest's hand. When all have venerated it, it is returned to the altar on a tray. The latter is usually practical only because there are so few communicants.

This all falls very much into the category of custom, as there are various practices that differ even amongst the hierarchical Old Believers.

Spasi Khristos - Mark, monk and sinner.

+ + +
gtJC!

My journey thus far has brought me to understand that a simple sincere act of LoVE exponentially increases the reverence and love we have internally for our Lord.

Do we not show Our Lord how much we LoVE him by venerating His LoVEd ones too? When someone is in love... not only do they want to show them that love & to honor their loved one as much as possible, but they want EvERyOne else to do the same. The easiest way to achieve this response is through an example.

Even just to have the AVailaBILiTY to venerate the Icon of the Tetrapod when approaching before Communion is a Blessing. Here is a 'shorted' story of why I say this...

Up until February of this year I was not fully of the mind set in venerating icons in public. I came back from a trip to a place in where it is CoLD and FLaT - and has NO EasTErn Churches [believe me I SeARched!!]. Again I remind you that I was not previously in the regular practice of venerating Icons in public [Roman background]... I did not previously understand what has been given to me by Our Lord... [I still only have a crumb on the fork-full of the pie - not even close to a slice of understanding]... back to story... There are many beautiful and reverent parishes in "CoLD and FLaT" and I took part in many Masses and devotions of private and semi-private prayer. However, by the end of the trip I was truly CrAVinG to come home. aaahhh - To come HoME!!! - - - To come HoME and KISS Our Blessed Mothers Icon at the Tetrapod - I missed her so much. I KnEW she would be there for me. And she was there, waiting to receive a LoVIng kiss from her daughter before she sent me on to receive Her Divine Son in Holy Communion.

How can this take anything away from the mystery of Holy Communion. I think it brings us closer exponentially.

I try and show my love and respect for Our Eternal Father at every chance. The memory of the strong feelings of wanting to venerate Our Blessed Mothers Icon at the Tetrapod has not dissipated from me...
I pray that it never does.

toodles & God bless, sUSAn