www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship The Other Sacramental Mysteries Matins with Holy Communion

My husband just returned from a business trip in Phoenix. When he checked to see the schedule of services at St Stephen Byzantine Cathedral there he thought he was told Wednesday and Friday would be Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts, and Divine Liturgy the other weekdays. When he told me that I thought surely that had to be wrong, an Eastern Catholic priest serving Divine Liturgy on a week day in Great Lent.

So I looked on their website. There is listed "Mon & Tues -- 8:00 am Matins with Holy Communion". Can someone familiar with this "Matins with Holy Communion" tell me what it is?

Is "Matins with Holy Communion" something practiced widely in the Ruthenian Church in America? Is it done only during Great Lent? The Byzantine Churches local to me, in Los Gatos, and in Sacramento, have only evening Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts.

Also, the Phoenix Cathedral lists "Presanctified Liturgy Wed 7pm, Fri Noon". How wide spread in the Ruthenian Church is the serving of Presanctified Liturgy, a vespers service, in the middle of the day?

Are either of these, Matins with Holy Communion, and day time Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts, done in Rusyn homelands or are these American?

(In my own parish we have Reader's Vespers at 4:00PM, so hardly is it that "we have come to the setting of the sun" during the service many weeks in the year. I appreciate the need to accommodate somewhat the needs of the people- clergy and laity.)

Well, I know that in the Eparchy of Parma, most parishes have Liturgies of Presanctified Gifts on Wednesdays and Fridays at 7 PM during the Great Lent, and serve the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil on Saturday Vigils with Great Vespers beforehand, and Matins with the St. Basil Liturgy on Sundays, at least the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist has the Vespergies and Matinurgies. Although during the weekdays, I think that all you can have is Matins or Lenten Devotions. and other nights than Wednesdays or Fridays, I think they either hold Vespers or have Missionaries visit and preach.

They make this stuff up as they go along, don't they?

I used to live in the Eparchy of Phoenix. I think it was either last Great Lent, or the one 2 years ago, that my parish priest started offering Matins with Communion about twice a week during Lent. I asked why we were having a service that was not consistent with Eastern praxis. I was told that the Bishop was encouraging priests to offer Communion (reserved from Sunday) at the end of Matins so that people could receive more frequently during the week than just at the Presanctified Liturgy. Although I normally attended virtually every service my parish offered, my response to this explanation was to say that I wouldn't be attending any of the Matins-Communion services. But my guess is that if you had taken a poll in the parish, I might have been the only one, or one of a very small handful, who saw a problem with it. (I actually don't think it was offered this year, though). I'm sorry to read that the practice is continuing in Phoenix.

We have met the enemy, and he is us. The Ruthenian Church is doomed, because its hierarchs have no idea of who or what their Church is supposed to be.

Latinizations are latinizations, no matter how big, or small

I dunno, I think reading through the online bulletin of St. Josaphat Cathedral, it seems like they do things right, according to UGCC tradition: http://www.stjosaphatcathedral.com/bulletin/20130310.pdf

EDIT: @StuartK, don't worry about the Ruthenian Church, with a Pope that has experience in Eastern traditions under his belt, I'm sure order and standardization will indeed be restored to ALL Eastern/Byzantine Catholicism soon enough.

That's not how it works, IronBob.

Maybe more people come to Matins if they know they can also receive Communion.

That's what I call "Cracker Jack" liturgy, Michelle--"Why should I go if there's no communion?"

As Hegumen Nicholas said, the liturgical consciousness of the Ruthenian Church has been reduced to the Divine Liturgy, which is like going to a 12-course banquet and only eating the entree. The people should be taught the appropriate place of Orthros, Vespers and the rest of the Hours, and this can only be done if these services are offered regularly and according to the Typicon. Invented services like Vespergy and Matinergy are abominations resulting from the hierarchy's refusal to accept the directives of the Holy See and educate the people. And in that education, they should start with themselves.

Oh...now I understand what you mean by "cracker jack" liturgy. You get a prize.

Matins prepare for Liturgy, vespers too I suppose. There is a lot of theology in these services and in my opinion you appreciate especially the feasts and fasts if you follow these services. In the Vespergy. You just start to get into the "meaty" part when you switch gears and go into the Liturgy but what do I know.

East or West there just isn't that many people that are into it... To them the most important is the Eucharist (Love) .

Holy Gifts = Cracker Jack Prize. "Vespergy." It is disrespectful talk like this that prevents people from hearing or accepting the message.

It is, nonetheless, an accurate and apropos description of the mindset which has befallen the Ruthenian Church. And you know it is true. One of the persistent problems of the Ruthenian Church is its persistent refusal to confront its problems head-on and honestly, for fear of "what others might think".

I know getting people to attend anything other than Sunday Liturgy is a tough sell in all Churches. And please don't point to the few exceptions, I am talking about the vast majority of parishes, Orthodox and Catholic, that have nothing else. The minority that do have Sat Vespers or Sun Orthros have only a handful attend.