|
1 members (KostaC),
314
guests, and
105
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,524
Posts417,636
Members6,176
| |
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839 |
Nice try! All your post did was to skirt the real issue. ...what wound the major archbishop was owning up to and confessing? Apparently, the selfrighteous hey! watch it with that log! Moscow based ROC will never ask for forgiveness. Defending one thing, it was necessary to give somewhere else. Were there any other organizations, or any other people among those who had to carry responsibility not only for themselves but for thousands of other fates, who in those years in the Soviet Union were not compelled to act likewise? Before those people, however, to whom the compromises, silence, forced passivity or expressions of loyalty permitted by the leaders of the church in those years caused pain, before these people, and not only before God, I ask forgiveness, understanding and prayers. "A long walk to church: a contemporary history of Russian orthodoxy." Nathaniel Davis p. 84. It's mentality is still that of the middle ages. No, antiquity.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461 Likes: 1 |
So what would our options be for reunification? Recent scenarions include having saints decanonized (ROCOR-MP reunion), having bishops busted to "auxiliary" status (Antiochian), being embroiled in heated jurisdictional conflicts (most recently Jerusalem-Antioch), and being the second largest particular Orthodox Church and being considered "without grace" (UOC-KP situation).
Many Years to His Beatitude, our Patriarch +Sviatoslav.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839 |
So what would our options be for reunification? Recent scenarions include having saints decanonized (ROCOR-MP reunion), having bishops busted to "auxiliary" status (Antiochian), being embroiled in heated jurisdictional conflicts (most recently Jerusalem-Antioch), and being the second largest particular Orthodox Church and being considered "without grace" (UOC-KP situation). LOL. I'll deal with this later, Lord willing, but in the meantime I thought I'd point out that you demonstrate that we are not the only one with problems, i.e.: Codex Canonum Ecclesiarum Orientalium
Canon 57
1. The erection, restoration, modification and suppression of patriarchal Churches is reserved to the supreme authority of the Church.
2. Only the supreme authority of the Church can modify the legitimately recognized or conceded title of each patriarchal Church.
3. If it is possible, a patriarchal Church must have a permanent see for the residence of the patriarch in a
principal city inside its own territory from which the patriarch takes his title; this see cannot be transferred except for a most grave reason and with the consent of the synod of bishops of the patriarchal Church and the assent of the Roman Pontiff. Many Years to His Beatitude, our Patriarch Major-Archbishop +Sviatoslav. per your supreme pontiff, fixed that for you. In fact, given Pastor Aeternus, your bishops wouldn't have to be "busted to "auxiliary" status." When they are free to ordain married men, and all those other "oriental" things, outside their "homelands," we'll see your jurisdictional conflicts cool down. Not until. Not to mention your four different patriarchs in Antioch, and your two in Jerusalem, which goes without a "sui juris" church of its own. Who do you claim was "decanonized"? And the second largest "particular" Orthodox Church is Romania, which is full of grace, as is the UOC.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461 Likes: 1 |
When they are free to ordain married men, and all those other "oriental" things, outside their "homelands," we'll see your jurisdictional conflicts cool down. We already do ordain married men outside our homeland. Who do you claim was "decanonized"? I believe that was discussed here: https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/390533/MP_Decanonizes_Several_Saints And the second largest "particular" Orthodox Church is Romania, which is full of grace, as is the UOC. The UOC-KP is recognized to have about 5.5 million, which clearly puts it in second place. Like my Patriarch +Sviatoslav, I make no judgment on "canonicity". The Bulgarian Church was "without grace" for a very long time. I also forgot to add in the above scenarios an "administrator" for a particular Church being appointed and bishop consecrated from outside that particular Church (i.e. ACROD) without a synodal election from within that particular Church. Many Years to His Beatitude, our Patriarch +Sviatoslav Patriarch, as per our Synod. That is how we commemorate him liturgically.
Last edited by Diak; 03/26/13 11:29 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,953
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,953 |
When they are free to ordain married men, and all those other "oriental" things, outside their "homelands," we'll see your jurisdictional conflicts cool down. We already do ordain married men outside our homeland. Who do you claim was "decanonized"? I believe that was discussed here: https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/390533/MP_Decanonizes_Several_Saints And the second largest "particular" Orthodox Church is Romania, which is full of grace, as is the UOC. The UOC-KP is recognized to have about 5.5 million, which clearly puts it in second place. Like my Patriarch +Sviatoslav, I make no judgment on "canonicity". The Bulgarian Church was "without grace" for a very long time. I also forgot to add in the above scenarios an "administrator" for a particular Church being appointed and bishop consecrated from outside that particular Church (i.e. ACROD) without a synodal election from within that particular Church. Many Years to His Beatitude, our Patriarch +Sviatoslav Patriarch, as per our Synod. That is how we commemorate him liturgically. I wish we would all take a deep breath. The Soviets were an incarnation of,if you will, the devil's darkest evil. They created martyrs on a level not seen since the second century or so. Arguing about who suffered more or frankly who was complicit in this or that is beyond unseemly. Bad choices were made at all quarters from Moscow to Rome and all points between. Our continuing sniping and boasting is surely not pleasing to God. As to ACROD you know we have no synod. A council of priests in accordance with our charter (in a manner modeled after, of all things, the method of election promised under the union of Uzhorod....) was convened in July of last year to elect a candidate for Bishop to present to the Synod of Constantinople. This after a year long search for a candidate of Slavic background. God blessed us with a wonderful Bishop who quickly has won the hearts and minds of his people. Just check our website at acrod.org.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 209
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 209 |
Arguing about who suffered more or frankly who was complicit in this or that is beyond unseemly. Bad choices were made at all quarters from Moscow to Rome and all points between.
Our continuing sniping and boasting is surely not pleasing to God. Plainly spoken and plainly true. For my part, I will continue to thank God for the faithfulness of all those who suffered for the Name during that time, as I will continue to lament the 'sniping and boasting' from all quarters.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,351 Likes: 99
Moderator Member
|
|
Moderator Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,351 Likes: 99 |
I wish we would all take a deep breath. The Soviets were an incarnation of,if you will, the devil's darkest evil. They created martyrs on a level not seen since the second century or so. Arguing about who suffered more or frankly who was complicit in this or that is beyond unseemly. Bad choices were made at all quarters from Moscow to Rome and all points between.
Our continuing sniping and boasting is surely not pleasing to God. Glory be to Jesus Christ!! Well said. I think this thread has outrun its usefulness, too. The acid exchanges betweeen brethren are not the stuff of what this forum is about. Let's all take a break this Holy Week and second week of Great Lent, read "Who We Are," and come back with a bit more love and humility. This thread is closed. Bob Moderator
Last edited by theophan; 03/27/13 08:55 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
