www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West How important is the question of which church?

Christ is risen!

As long as the schismatics insist.

Let's not forget the Traditional Latin Catholic Church, too. There was a small group of believers that broke off thinking that what happened during Vatican II just didn't agree with them, but still receive the sacraments and worship in the Pre-1969 style.

Maybe you two should get together form WHS (We Hate Schism).

P.S. Of course, an alternative response to
could be "And just how long do you plan to keep insisting?" but that seems a little trite. I like to think my other response was better. :pats self on back:

Two Lungs:

I've been told that the Holy Spirit speaks through an ecumenical council in one of two ways. First, through the unamimous agreement of all the bishops present; second through the mouth of the lone dissenter. The latter idea has always intrigued me.

Bob

That's why St. Mark of Ephesus has always stood out to me.

Truly risen!

Wait, didn't they all die some centuries back? And what have they to with you and me, brother?
(Just messing with you)

A blessed Pascha to you and yours

I know...

^^
That was a movie reference, btw.

(Yes, I am a geek today)

Forgive me.

CCC818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers .... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."

Exactly. I knew I'd read that somewhere!

That reminds me that, back in the 90s when I read that for the first time, I spent a good bit of time thinking: What does that mean for those (including some I knew personally) who were born into Catholicism and then left it?

Its clear from this forum, and obviously from basic theology, that your main problem is with protestantism. They are not saved through the sacraments, they are saved by faith alone (bless 'em!)

Concerning the relationship between us, i would recommend that the Catholic Church consider us as a RITE within the RC (just like you), but we ought to still have our own patriarch, simply because He is the See of St Mark... we cannot just get rid of such amazing heritage.

Concerning dogmas like the filoque, purgatory, immaculate conception, what do we do? how do we iron these issues out that divide us?

Well, these things that divide should be put aside. We ought to have ONE Creed that we agree upon, and these dogmas should be left to theologians to discuss. For example, many Orthodox Christians accept this notion of Toll houses when you die. Some do not. I'm not saying Toll houses do not exist, but who cares? Will I start to kill my Coptic Orthodox brother because he subscribes to Toll Houses and I do not (a difference within the SAME Church?).

I would really recommend that Unity be taken seriously. Considering yourself "the true church" and having no faithful people does a fat lot of good for anyone.

The Coptic church has an immense amount of spiritual treasures to offer and share. The Catholic Church has a large footprint of Churches that we need access to also.

A rite is never an "us". A rite is an "it", regardless of whether you're talking about a rite used in the Latin Church (e.g. the Bragan Rite or the Roman Rite) or a rite used by one or more EC Churches (e.g. the Byzantine Rite).

Dear sister Anastasia,

IN the context of the Apostolic Churches only:
According to official Catholic teaching, it matters according to one's knowledge.

In other words, if one is fully aware and understand Catholic teaching yet still reject the Catholic Church (i.e., refuse to enter the Catholic Church or leave her), then one's salvation is at risk. If you remain outside the Catholic Church or leave her because of a lack of understanding/knowledge that cannot be overcome with diligent effort, then the Apostolic Church of which you are a member can give you the means to salvation that the Catholic Church also gives.

There is a particular category called "affected ignorance," wherein malice towards the Catholic Church is involved. This type of ignorance is not excused and endangers one's salvation.

I hope that answers some of your questions.

Blessings,
Marduk