www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Article on Pope Francis from Christianity Today

Not something I expected to see--I guess you could say it made my day! Our Francis, Too [christianitytoday.com]

What a disappointing article. Is it not possible to discuss our new pope without disparaging the last? Even if I were impressed with ostentatious displays of humility (as apparently is the press) is it so difficult to understand that Benedict's faithful adherence to the trappings of the papal office was true humility at work, allowing himself and his preferences to be eclipsed by his office? Hasn't everyone long since caught on to the foolish game played by all the Father Sneakers-and-Golf-Shirts "hey I'm just one of the guys! See? I wear jeans!".

I think one of the problems is that Catholics are largely ignorant of their own symbols and traditions. Some of those papal "trappings" have great significance and meaning.

Most of them are innovations no older than the Counter-Reformation, and have nothing to do with the essence of the Petrine Ministry.

I'm afraid too many Catholics don't even know about the last 100 years, much less the Counter-Reformation.

Petrine ministry? If you can get some agreement between east and west on what that even is, I predict you will become an extremely wealthy man.

That is entirely beside the point, and the second half is wrong.

I don't want to get into a big kerfuffle about the Petrine Ministry, but a symbol can be excellent without stretching back to antiquity. Moreover, if a wrong emphasis has warped the understanding of the papacy such that certain symbols proper to the entire episcopacy have been confined to just the papacy, this fact doesn't negate the usefulness of the symbol.

So, are you *really* putting Pope Francis on the same level with "Fr. Sneakers-and-Golf-Shirts?" I personally have a deep admiration for Pope Francis, and I think he has a keen appreciation for the symbolic value of his actions.

Agreed. However, symbols mean different things to different groups of people. A good example of this would be the Confederate flag--for some, it represents Southern pride, while for others, it's a sign of brutal racist repression.

Similarly, the trappings of aristocracy (such as papal red shoes) symbolize different things for different people, and if the Pope sees fit to forego them, I'm not going to criticize him for it.

I don't see what this comment has to do with Pope Francis.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

And symbols can be used in different ways, changed, etc.

That is the ubiquitous power of a symbol as well.

Alex

A little, I am, yeah.



The red shoes are a symbol of martyrdom. Anyway the shoes aren't the point. This is where the Fr. Golf Shirt comparison comes in. It's not humility that has him skipping his collar, it's pride, and disdain for the office, like dads who want to be friends.

But let's examine your point about "trappings of aristocracy". What would be your perspective of an eastern hierarch who refused a mitre? "a hat based on a crown? I'm too modest for that! I refuse. I am unique in my modesty and individualist in my humility!"


It doesn't. It concerns Stuart's broad point about the Petrine Ministry and symbols.

No, Epiphanius is correct. Your Supreme Pontiff got them, like that title, from Caesar, who alone was allowed to wear purple boots (there is no distinction between red and purple). Btw, the caliphs got the same tradition, from the same source.

I think I get the point you are making, JDC. But I think it is wildly overstated. I don't see how the Pope is somehow refusing to be Pope because he's discontinued some of the distinctively papal trappings. Most of these, by the way, had already been basically discontinued, only having been reintroduced by Pope Benedict.

Thank you for informing of this, O All-Wise Reader of the hearts and minds of men!

I would be so glad if our priests abandoned the clerical collar in favor of the cassock and pectoral cross. The clerical collar, by the way, is a quite recent invention of the Western Church.

A lot of the papal regalia has more to do with his role as a medieval king than as a bishop. The pope can do away with all that as far as I am concerned. And I also wouldn't care if bishops of all rites laid aside headgear and all adopted some form of pallium/omophor as The symbol of the episcopacy.

I'd like that too. It is, again, beside the point. Are you fond of pointing out things which, true, are beside the point? You're very good at it. Usually I find it more entertaining than today.