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Mar 25th, 2025
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Joined: Nov 2001
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He was in full honey badger mode, wasn't he?
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Happy to see my bishop do what is right. Axios! Axios! Axios!
I don't expect a big PR campaign, but hope that within the regular channels of communication, it is proudly represented.
Let us remember, actions are louder than words, and this is a welcome example of appropriate action by our church which often struggles to do so. A good sign. I agree, we tend to look for grand gestures while forgetting that not all are called to serve the Church in the manner of Beckett or Sir Thomas More. I shall join in Axios!
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^ Opps. I forgot the quote: (Please fix the edit function!)
"It took almost a year before the Sacred Congregation for the Oriental Church responded in a condescending manner to the KOVO resolutions in a letter dated July 23, 1934. The basis for denying the ordination and immigration of married Eastern Rite priests is found in the following paragraph:
“This regulation (celibacy for American clergy) arose, not new, but anew from the peculiar conditions of the Ruthenian population in the United States of America. There it represents an immigrant element and a minority, and it could not therefore pretend to maintain there its own customs and traditions of Catholicism in the United States, and much less to have a clergy which could be a source of perplexity or scandal to the majority of American Catholics.”....... Come on, guys! The "scandal" accusation started in the late 1800's through 1934, not yesterday. Think, man, to an American Catholic in 1934 (other than the tiny percentage that was EC) a priest living with a woman WAS a scandal. I'm not trying to justify Rome's decision, but just trying to put it in context. So, you want to say that Orthodoxy is scandalized by the Vatican abuse of Eastern tradition outside of its native region. Well then, I counter by saying that Eastern Christians, Orthodox and Catholic, should also be scandalized by the Orthodox allowing RC churches in Eastern Europe and Asia. We should also be scandalized by the animosity displayed among the MP, EC, and Ukrainian Orthodox. So, hey, lets all pretend we are perfect and judge and damn every wrong from now until ages of ages. (Now stepping off my soapbox.)
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"not therefore pretend to maintain there its own customs and traditions of Catholicism in the United States, and much less to have a clergy which could be a source of perplexity or scandal to the majority of American Catholics.”....... Come on, guys! The "scandal" accusation started in the late 1800's through 1934, not yesterday. Think, man, to an American Catholic in 1934 (other than the tiny percentage that was EC) a priest living with a woman WAS a scandal. I'm not trying to justify Rome's decision, but just trying to put it in context. [/quote] Paul B, I'm really not trying to mount a high horse. I still think my point is valid, though. The 'scandal' we are talking about revealed then--as it reveals now--a wrong understanding of the priestly office and of the Latin tradition of priestly celibacy. We should accept any 'perplexity' caused by the multiform disciplines of the Catholic Church as an opportunity to better teach the truth of the Catholic faith.
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"not therefore pretend to maintain there its own customs and traditions of Catholicism in the United States, and much less to have a clergy which could be a source of perplexity or scandal to the majority of American Catholics.”....... Come on, guys! The "scandal" accusation started in the late 1800's through 1934, not yesterday. Think, man, to an American Catholic in 1934 (other than the tiny percentage that was EC) a priest living with a woman WAS a scandal. I'm not trying to justify Rome's decision, but just trying to put it in context. Paul B, I'm really not trying to mount a high horse. I still think my point is valid, though. The 'scandal' we are talking about revealed then--as it reveals now--a wrong understanding of the priestly office and of the Latin tradition of priestly celibacy. We should accept any 'perplexity' caused by the multiform disciplines of the Catholic Church as an opportunity to better teach the truth of the Catholic faith. [/quote] That's probably easier for you to say as a Roman Catholic who understands the eastern churches than it was for the immigrants who saw their church changing before their eyes, not just celibacy, but removal of icon screens, installation of communion rails etc...things that were happening in real time. I realize times are different today.
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[/quote]
That's probably easier for you to say as a Roman Catholic who understands the eastern churches than it was for the immigrants who saw their church changing before their eyes, not just celibacy, but removal of icon screens, installation of communion rails etc...things that were happening in real time. I realize times are different today. [/quote]
I think we are talking about different 'scandals.' I was referring to the purported scandal caused among Roman Catholics by the presence of married priests. ( I think the quotes are a little off in my last post, making it seem like I was saying something that I was actually responding to.)
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Interesting how nuance and phrasing can ignite a disagreement where none really exists. The internet reminds us in that manner how the Great Schism began and took on its own life. Gotta go....
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All this discussion has done is confirm my observation from Orientale Lumen. When the subject of mandatory celibacy and restrictions on the ordination of married men by the Greek Catholic Churches came up (in the course of a presentation by Father James Dutko), there was a rare unanimity of opinion between the Greek Catholics and the Orthodox: this was indeed a Church-dividing issue. In fact, the room was filled with barely suppressed rage by both Orthodox and Greek Catholics that was really palpable.
The Roman Catholics, who tried to play down the issue, seemed to be stupefied, absolutely clueless about what was happening. They just did not get it. They saw it as a superficial disciplinary matter, whereas the Greek Catholics and Orthodox saw it as both a lack of respect for, and an attack upon, the integrity of their own shared Tradition.
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StuartK: Making Ruthenian Lemons out of Ruthenian Lemonade since the RDL (or earlier)
Surely this is not the best for one's spiritual development or for unity among Eastern Christians.
How about a simple Axios (or two?)? Or in keeping with the tradition, how about 3? 
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Wow, all this bandwith over a prudential judgement.
As the Father of our eparchy, His Grace, +Gerald, is in a much better position than anyone here to know how to provide for his flock.
May God grant him MANY years!
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Wow, all this bandwith over a prudential judgement.
As the Father of our eparchy, His Grace, +Gerald, is in a much better position than anyone here to know how to provide for his flock.
May God grant him MANY years! Exactly (times three)! many years to Bishop Gerald, the two new priests, Fr. Deacon John and all Christians of the true faith!
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An article worth readingNot really... it engages in pretty blatant ad hominem argument. If scandal can be defined as “sinful and grossly improper behavior that brings about disgrace and offends one’s moral sensibilities,” what was “sinful” about Greek Catholic priests being married? "Except that's not how scandal is defined in Roman Catholic moral theology. The kind of scandal being referred to is the kind mentioned in point three here [ newadvent.org]: (3) To prevent another's sin one may even be bound to forego an act which is sinful neither in itself nor in appearance, but which is nevertheless the occasion of sin to another, unless there be sufficient reason to act otherwise. Of course, it can be argued that the refusal to permit Eastern Catholics to follow their traditions fully (including the ordination of married men to the priesthood) is a source of scandal to Eastern Catholics, as well as to the Eastern Orthodox, whom we hope will enter into full communion with the Catholic Church. Hope all you wish for reunion (and I do hope for it one day also!) but the fact of the matter is that until there is a massive education of the Western clergy and people regarding the right of the East to a married priesthood, and also to the fact that a married priest can be every bit as holy as a celibate priest, IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!!!
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. . . a source of scandal to Eastern Catholics, as well as to the Eastern Orthodox, whom we hope will enter into full communion with the Catholic Church. How about if we look at it from the Orthodox side? What if this source of scandal is the thing that makes them refuse to admit Catholics into full communion? Actually it's the whole idea that Rome is some sort of measuring stick for everything--liturgy (see Cardinal Koch's remarks in Ukraine), practice (ordination discipline), and a whole host of other things, including but not limited to the idea that there needs to be a universal primacy as it has come to be understood in the second millemium in the West. Bob
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It would a form of sublime irony were Bishop Gerald to be the one to break the ban. I wouldn't rule it out--he *has* arranged the import of at least one married priest. He told us that the hardest part of the whole thing was finding health insurance that covered them both . . .
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I bet if he asked a SCOBA counterpart, the carrier used for pooled coverage for Orthodox clergy could have helped. 
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