www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Intercommunion taken to an extreme?

'Catholic answers.' Haha; just a coincidence. Like I said, I never read it.

So that's what you meant by honorary Orthodox. Gotcha.

Amen!

I was born Roman Catholic, My parents became Protestant in my teens, came back to the RC in my late 20s, was active into my mid 30s, but did not feel my local parish offered the spiritual growth that I felt I needed, but I wanted to remain Catholic. While Visiting Russia, I discovered the Orthodox side of Catholicism. (my grandmother had escaped the 1917 revolution, moved to France where she became a devout RC).

Through a family crisis, in my early 40s I embraced Orthodoxy. I know this is my home , but along the way I found the hand of Christ at work in all the various churches.

Before I became Orthodox, I always thought that the first split of the church was the reformation with Martin Luther. Now I see it was within the Catholic church itself. We as Christians suffer from so much dissent. I pray that with Christ's help we can overcome the divisions within the catholic faith.

Why shouldn't Ukrainian Catholics move where their capital is?
Not to annoy Moscow?
They can be annoyed as much as they wish.
And I do not think any Ukrainians will appreciate Canadians and Americans reasoning in what they should or shouldn't do in order "not to annoy Moscow" - you guys are way overstepping your authority even in theory.

In fact, it was the Orthodox Metropolitan of KIEV (there, is everyone happy? ), who signed the Union of Brest.

And that city is the capital of Ukraine (formerly known as "Little Russia," "southwest Russia," etc.).

The only ones upset by the move is the Russian Orthodox Church which has renamed itself as the "Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Moscow Patriarchate."

The Ukrainians themselves don't seem to mind at all.

Alex

Well, the agenda of not annoying Moscow is certainly that of Rome's ostpolitik, wouldn't you say?

Alex

He was in Navahrudak and Vilnius, and got deposed for it by the same authority who had deposed his predecessor and put him in office. Is it verified that he ever set foot in Kiev?
You forgot "Southern Lithuania" and "Southeast Poland."
No, it is the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Others tag on "Moscow Patriarchate" to distinguish it from the so called "Kiev Patriarchate" who is also not so keen on the move.
I hear differently.

You meant the UGCC? Same reasons the "Italo-Albanian/Greek Catholic Church" cannot have their Metropolitan in Rome, plus the canonical issue.
The Orthodox are not.

[quote]
You meant the UGCC? Same reasons the "Italo-Albanian/Greek Catholic Church" cannot have their Metropolitan in Rome, plus the canonical issue.
Am I missing something, ain't "their Metropolitan" the canonical Catholic Bishop of Rome HH Francis?

Isa,

Did the Orthodox Metropolitans of Kiev living in Moscow ever set foot in Kiev? I've read that that Metropolitan who signed the Unia of Brest did set foot in Kiev, but how does that change anything concerning his title?

Yes, thank you for the other titles given Ukraine by those who overran it. Coptic Christians have a similar view of the Arabs who overran them.

The UOC-MP is a concocted title, concocted when Ukraine broke away from the Russian yoke. The Baltic countries, I believe, didn't allow the ROC there to do something similar.

As for the non-canonical Orthodox, you are simply wrong and have been hearing the wrong things. I know you are wrong because I've spoken directly with the leadership of the UOC-KP on this very matter as well as numerous priests and lay parish leaders in Ukraine. Perhaps you've also heard there are UOC-KP parishes who use the same building as UGCC parish communities?

The UOC-KP patriarch came to Canada and visited one of our UGCC parishes where he even gave an award to our parish priest for his services to seniors. All the UGCC priests there kissed the patriarch's hand - I saw that and it is on Youtube.

Many Orthodox Ukrainians of the UOCC came out to see him and they were, in turn, very upset that their Metropolitan forbade them from having anything to do with Patriarch Filaret - I would take him as my patriarch too. I've also sent funds to their publishing house for the printing of their "Passia" and other texts. They were pleasantly surprised to hear I'm UGCC but no cries of "Uniate!" and the like.

Judging from your views, I think you've been listening to very narrow-minded crowd, Big Guy.

Alex

Like his Ruthenians.

Good point, he is.

[Linked Image]

Indeed, the original topic (i.e. that someone who is in the process of leaving Orthodoxy should still consider himself/herself Orthodox with respect to receiving communion) was only about 20% of this thread. I can't really complain, it's been a very interesting thread.

But he isn't your patriarch.

It is but the best policy is to ignore them. We, being a 5 mln member Church have more power than illusory ecumenism

I could not care less about Italo-whatever.
Ukrainian capital IS Kyiv and Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is going to have their center there. Period.
Even if all the Orthodox in Russia and abroad are going to hate.
It's none of their business.

You are right sir!