www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Pope Francis wishing a happy ramadan to Muslims?

As a Melkite I am already Orthodox. Will I remain a Melkite for the rest of my life? That is hard to say. The spiritual life is a journey, and so I cannot exclude the possibility of conversion to Eastern Orthodoxy at some point in the future.

I have not spoken about the eternal destiny of any individual; instead, I have simply stated that there is only one way of salvation, and that that way is through Christ. There is no salvation in following Muhammad or his vile teachings.

I have had discussions with Muslims in the past, how could I not do so, after all my second BA degree at SFSU involved an Islamic component. That said, the whole time I pushed the standard modern Catholic approach to Islam the only result was that Muslims felt confirmed in their false belief, while they simultaneously thought that I was ripe for conversion to Muhammadanism. It was only when I gave up the indifferentist views advocated by Vatican II that I even began to make headway with Muslims in personal discussions about doctrinal issues.

Wow an academic grounded in reality. If you want to hear about the real face of Islam, I certainly have some experience with it. Sure, I have talked to Muslims in America. But I have also fought the rabid Islamist. The Chechen with fresh blood on his hands. The twelve year old bent on killing me.

If you believe there are only arms length Christians think again. Even in the world of Islam you find them. You think they are indifferent to what is going on, but you are wrong. They are just as self serving as Christians. And when it comes down to brass tacks they will stone the fourteen year old girl to death just for taking some candy from a soldier.

I didn't see everyone rush out and take up arms to protect Americas interest. But the majority supported combat actions. Same thing with Islam. And to be honest, I can respect the Islamist. They are at least principled. We cant even agree that there is a problem.

Dear Todd,

You are a most admirable Christian who lives so very close to our Lord and His Church, who is also so articulate theologically and every which way.

I just don't see the problem with wishing a member of any world religion a happy feast day they happen to observe.

I work with Muslim colleagues in an organization that builds homes for the homeless. We understand and, yes, respect our differences. Headway can be made in that context as well.

Have a great day.

Alex

I totally agree. I said something similar about 4 pages ago before the topic became more theological in nature.


Maybe we should leave it at this and not judge the Pope so much?

The Eastern Fathers and monastic saints had a lot to say about judging! It is probably one of our most tempting sins, and one which our tongue and our 'logismoi' (thoughts) engage in more than anything else...

In Christ,
Alice

I would also add, wishing a generic Happy Ramadan by the Holy Father, Eastern Patriarchs, and local clergy leads to many lives on the ground being physically saved. Isn't this practical incentive enough?

In an ecumenical spirit,( ) I would like to offer this article of Patriarch Bartholomew offering the same good wishes for Ramadan two years ago..


Hundreds of Orthodox pilgrims gather for second service at Sümela Monastery

Orthodox worshippers attend the Virgin Mary service led by Fener Greek Patriarch Bartholomew at the ancient Sümela Monastery in the Black Sea coastal province of Trabzon.

15 August 2011 /TODAYSZAMAN.COM

Nearly 1,000 Orthodox Christians gathered for a historic service at Sümela Monastery in the Black Sea coastal province of Trabzon early Monday, marking the second religious ceremony held at the monastery in the history of the Turkish Republic.

The Divine Liturgy, held on the occasion of the Feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos according to the Orthodox liturgical calendar (also known as the Assumption of Mary), was officiated by İstanbul-based Fener Greek Patriarch Bartholomew I. Pilgrims from Greece, Russia, Georgia and other countries traveled to the monastery, which currently serves as a museum. Around 500 pilgrims were admitted to the monastery during the service, and the remaining participants watched the event from large screens set up outside Sümela.

Beginning the homily by saying “Our Muslim brothers,” Bartholomew thanked the Turkish government, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and the Ministry of Culture and Tourism for allowing a second service at Sümela. Stating that Mary has a special place for both Muslims and Christians, he recalled a Quran verse which says: “And (remember) when the angels said: ‘O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah has chosen you, purified you (from polytheism and disbelief), and chosen you above the women of the ‘Alamin' (mankind and jinns) (of her lifetime),” the patriarch called for peace and brotherhood in Turkey and in the world during his speech.

“The peace that we long for is vital, in particular during these days. We cannot rid ourselves of the burden of the tragic events in Norway yet. There is ongoing bloodshed in neighboring countries. Mothers are crying in our country. … Let's make a call from the high Sümela Mountain, from the presence of the feet of the Virgin Mary -- who is above all women -- to all Christians and Muslims for us, for humanity and for our future. This call can be a single word: peace, peace, peace. Mutual respect and love should be our only prayer,” the patriarch said.

Bartholomew also wished Muslim a happy Ramadan and Eid al-Fitr. “May God accept your fasts,” he added.

The monastery was abandoned after the foundation of the Turkish Republic and the subsequent population exchange between Turks and Greeks. It has since become a major tourist destination along Turkey's Black Sea coast.

The Turkish government last year allowed for an annual religious service to be held at the monastery in a gradual loosening of restrictions on religious expression. The government accepted the patriarchate's request to hold last year's celebration of the Feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos on Aug. 15 at Sümela Monastery. The service was again officiated by Fener Greek Patriarch Bartholomew.
Armenians celebrate ‘Feast of the Virgin Mary'

The Feast of the Virgin Mary was celebrated in Vakıflı, Turkey's only Armenian village, located in the province of Hatay, on Sunday. Many Armenians from various provinces in Turkey and also those from Syria, Germany and Lebanon attended the service. The bishop of the Hatay Armenian Church, Avediş Tabaşyan, presided over the service while Deputy Patriarch Aram Ateşyan joined as a guest.

Ateşyan said that every year on the Sunday nearest to Aug. 15, Armenians from around the world come to Turkey to join the celebration.

This year, the Feast of the Virgin Mary coincides with Ramadan. “Christians and Muslims are celebrating at the same time. In this time of fasting, I hope the fasts of our Muslim brothers and sisters are good and are accepted. Without fasting, prayer and charity work is not accepted,” Ateşyan said.

Todd, I'm not disputing with you about this central claim--I doubt many here are. If you think I am, then your statements against relativism are more understandable to me. You seem to see your insistence that Jews and Muslims don't worship the true God as a corollary or extension of that basic claim. All I am saying is that most of the Christian tradition has not seen it that way.

Actually IT IS Catholic position. It is just not being enforced

Dear Mother Alice,

That Patriarch of yours . . . I think he's worse than the Pope!

When Our Lady appeared above the Coptic Church at Zeitun in Cairo, many Muslims came out to revere. One of our own priests from St Nicholas UGCC parish went there at the time and saw how Muslims were placing expensive prayer rugs on the sand in front of the Church (or was it a Cathedral?).

As they do on other Christian festivals in other places, Muslims joined with Orthodox, Catholics and, yes, even Evangelical Protestants in praising Maryam as she appeared over the dome of that Church (marking the spot, according to tradition, where the Holy Family stayed whilst in Egypt).

Perhaps a good Mother might not make a distinction between her children at such a time . . .

Thank you for posting this, Mother Alice!

Alex

I see no point in wishing someone "happy ramadan." In fact that sentiment is like wishing someone happiness in his embracing of error. True happiness will not be found by observing ramadan; instead, true happiness comes from following and giving glory to Christ, the sole savior of mankind.

I will never wish someone happiness in following the religious deception promulgated by Muhammad.

Here's an essay by Met. Georges Khodr of Mount Lebanon about the start of Ramadan. When you're talking about your friends and neighbors and not theological abstractions, it becomes harder to dismiss them.

http://araborthodoxy.blogspot.com/2011/08/met-georges-khodr-on-ramadan.html

"Ramadan is a month for all of us, whether we refrain from food or refrain from sin. It is not right for a Muslim to be practicing his asceticism and for us to not support him with prayer. He believes that his fast was decreed for him. You should ask blessings, health, and purity for him so that he can reach the highest point of his struggle and benefit all people through his nighttime prayer.

It saddens me that some of us welcome the iftars to which our friends invite us without our hearts going to the fast itself, that is to turning away from this world and its pleasures insofar as we are happy for Muslims to draw near to God and His generosity.

We accept Muslims because God accepts them in the purity of their worship."

Funny!

What a beautiful and intelligent article by His Beatitude Metropolitan Khodr!

Amen to it!

Alex

Is "Alice" your real name in Greek? (If it's any of my business).

Alex