www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West ROCOR Western Rite Disappears?

There is still part of me that wishes that one Eastern jurisdiction would create a WR based on the Lutheran liturgy. The only WR at present are adapted from the Tridentine Mass or from Rite One of the Book of Common Prayer.

There are many Lutherans who are seeking a solid ecclesial community grounded in the Great Tradition: the ecumenical Creeds,the first four (possibly seven) ecumenical councils, and the historic liturgy.

Many found themselves in crisis when the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America decided to Ordain as Presbyters non-chaste homosexuals in "publicly accountable, monogamus relationships" and to teach that there are a plurality of definitions of "marriage".

That no Eastern jurisdiction has undertaken to embrace a "Lutheran WR" stikes me as squandered opportunity.

Maybe the next thing from Rome, a "Luteran ordinariate"

That possibility has been discussed -- see, for example, here [vaticaninsider.lastampa.it].

With all due respect to Rev. Martin Junge (who said that a Lutheran Ordinariate would have “serious ecumenical repercussions”) I have to imagine that there is somewhere in the world where a Lutheran Ordinariate would make sense. I don't know where, but somewhere.

Minnesota, perhaps? I can't think of anywhere in Europe where you could find enough Lutherans who still care as to make a difference.

The centers of Lutheran orthodoxy (with appreciation for the episcopacy and high church liturgy) are Pennsylvania and North Carolina.

The midwest has its pockets of orthodox doctrine--after all, the conservative Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod and Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod are headquartered in that region--but there is a very broad pietistic/anticlerical streak.

I think Norway would have been a possibility about a dozen years ago (if the Ordinariate idea had been developed back then). See the article Out on a limb in Norway [touchstonemag.com].

In fact, there are two High Church Lutheran groups I'm aware of which have written to Rome about this and who have been formally told to seek corporate union with Rome via the Anglican Ordinariate procedures.

They are now proceeding with that. Now, they do eschew the Lutheran theological heritage and don't like Luther at all. They have already accepted the Catholic Catechism and put pictures of the Pope up in their parishes. So how ritually "Lutheran" they are is an open question (other than their wide use of the Luther Rose and a few cultural Lutheran things).

Alex

Interesting. I haven't heard of any, except the ALCC.

Yes, that's one of them. I've been told there are others.

These Norwegians have apparently linked to the PNCC under the Union of Scranton.

http://dnkk.no/Sentrale%20sider%20-%20engelsk/index.htm

You're right, that's why I qualified it as "would have been a possibility about a dozen years ago". (I'm not trying to suggest that Rome would try to win-them-away from the Union of Scranton.)

From what I've seen the ALCC is a sham operation, more clergy than laity, mostly online.

As I understand it, they're an organization dedicated to convincing Lutherans and Anglicans to convert to Catholicism. I think some of their literature is a bit misleading, but "sham" seems overly harsh.

Yes, they are true "Evangelical Catholics" of the Lutheran tradition who use ONLY the Catholic Catechism and pray ONLY the RC Divine Office etc.

And Rome takes them serious enough to have formally instructed them to follow the Ordinariate procedures to become an integral part of the Catholic Church.

They are only a "sham" to those who are anti-Catholic.

Alex

So what if your colleague sees an altar girl there, again?

Seems that we all lose sight of Christ in the midst of all these minor debates.