www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West ROCOR Western Rite Disappears?

But also like Stuart said ... the number of laity indicates nothing about Orthodoxy of the group.

Those numbers were just an exercise best left inside my head but I charged ahead and posted it.

The vast majority of the WR in ROCOR, were simply the priest and his family.

Re: Atonement. The parish was going to petition to join the ordinariate but at the present time is unable to do so.

Dear chadrook,

But I knew a WR ROCOR parish and a monastery - you are simply, well, not correct . . .

There was a setback in all this, that Orthodoxy is what many Westerners think it is - largely a religious-CULTURAL phenomenon that has little to say to the West.

Alex

And if that is true Alex - what a sad state of affairs

Well you say you only knew a parish and a monastery. What else? Is your conclusion drawn from the two places you have seen?

Of course, I can restate my conclusion, but with different premisses. I will simply say that the majority of WR parishes in the Midwest and West, are the priest and their family.

And it can be seen in the directory as well.Is it not a cultural thing if you are unwilling to give up western liturgies? Refusing to use English in a liturgy is a cultural thing, but the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom is Orthodoxy.

I know, I know the theology is the same and all, but in our modern border-less world is it really? Does the WR represent the faith found in the rest of ROCOR? I don't think it did.

Aye, sir.

However, there is always the Antiochian Orthodox Church!

It is really a magnificent Patriarchate and truly "catholic" in its universal outreach.

I just loved their conference in Toronto and could see up close how truly spiritually and culturally diverse they are, with two Western Rites (for former Anglicans and Roman Catholics) and one "Evangelical Orthodox" tradition or Byzantine with evangelical preaching et al. thrown in.

Two Western Rite converts who were priests saw me deeply reverence the hand of their Metropolitan Phillip. They later joked, "Alex, why are you showing him greater respect than we would? You're an outsider."

In reply, I said, "Anyone who can bring such two fine gentlemen up from out of the abyss as he has deserves the utmost of devotion . . ."

Alex

And it would be easier to be WR when you only have one ruling bishop. You are right, they really are "Catholic."

Thank you for the compliment, Chad!

At least I hope and pray it was . . .

Alex

More like snarky. But not towards you. I was commenting on the situation found in the Antiochians. They remind me of Byzantine Catholics, but in all the worst ways. Like the Latins that fill the pews in Ruthinian churches because they don't like the way things are going in the Latin church. But are unwilling to give up their pre-concieved ideas as to what it means to be, as you say, Eastern Christian.

The Antiochians have the protestant converts that bring their strange ideas and methods. And Met. Phillip disdains monasticism. This is inconceivable in the Orthodox world. So...

Dear Chad,

I can't say that I disagree with you.

We have a bishop like that too . . .

Alex

I have to defend Metropolitan Philip with respect to the oft repeated charge that he "disdains" monasticism. A careful reading of his position over the years is that he disdains a false monasticism which becomes cult-like and totally independent from the true body of the Church. Self annointed "Elders" who advise the faithful in ways contrary to their parish priests and diocesan bishops have been a source of some issues in Orthodoxy in America and he is rightly objecting to such non traditional behavior. Of course the definition of what constitutes non traditional behavior is a source of great vexation and distraction among us in the Orthodox World. But, as they say, I know it when I see it.

And I have seen and heard from the "horses mouth if you will," more than enough to support my statement. I am willing to be corrected and figure my view is askew; so show me to the Antiochian monastery.

I guess monasteries are to much of a financial drain. America's money is needed elsewhere.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doe not your jurisdiction view me, my bishops, my clergy ,faithful and those in communion with us as being at best schismatics and most likely as graceless heretics? That being the case, why should the policies of Metropolitan Philip or any other of the "world Orthodox" be of any concern to you? The anathemas proclaimed on us by numerous Old Calendarists don't really bother or concern us. (I know personally how the local GOC priest has treated efforts by other local Orthodox clergy to be civil and include him in at least clergy gatherings over the years including his time with ROCOR before he led the schism in that already fractured parish, let alone participation in any church functions. He is clear in his views of us, hence I assume his is the teaching of the GOC in general. If not, I apologize in advance.)

Is the apology for the Ad hominem?

Is my question hostage until I answer your question? You certainly wear you heart on your sleeve. I run into this a lot when it comes to the overly ethnic. But that is really a cultural thing. In the context of High and low culture societies.

This choice of communication styles translates into a culture that will cater to in-groups, an in-group being a group that has similar experiences and expectations, from which inferences are drawn. In a high context culture, many things are left unsaid, letting the culture explain. Words and word choice become very important in higher context communication, since a few words can communicate a complex message very effectively to an in-group (but less effectively outside that group), while in a lower context culture, the communicator needs to be much more explicit and the value of a single word is less important.

I come from a low context culture. That being said; When I ask where are all the monasteries, that's just what I mean.

If you wish to start a thread about my synod, go ahead we could use the exposure.