www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Ways of counting the 40 "Kirie Eleison"

Dear Friends,

What is your way of counting the Lord have mercy which is said 40 times at the end of most services and the kathismata of the Psalter?

One Orthodox bishop told me to use my thumb and count the twelve divisions of the other four fingers, back and forth until 36 are counted and then just count the four fingers themselves to make the number 40.

Others say the Lord have mercy five times in a group and sing this eight times to make up the number 40.

Old Believers use their Lestovka and count from the beginning large "step" before the group of 38 smaller steps, ending with the large step at the end to make up the number 40.

Still others count four decades of Lord have mercy on their prayer ropes which are divided into groups of ten.

I've been shown one or two other methods that I found rather incomprehensible.

What is your method? What is the standard method?

Alex

Left hand at my side - and touch each digit to my leg as I say the first 10 [ 2 rounds of my hand] then switch language and do another 10 and so forth

Ukrainian [ Господи, помилуй] , English [ Lord have mercy ], Greek [ Kyrie Eleison] and French [Seigneur, aie pitié ]

Only having to count 10 each time makes it much easier Tip was given to me by my GodPapa - and it works

There should be an app for that.

I sing them in groups of 10. I count by placing the thumb of my left hand on each section of finger, and for a group of 10, I stop at the top of the pinky. I keep track on my right hand in a similar manner. By doing it that way, you can say 30, 40, 50, or 100 as the need arises without changing the mechanics of the counting.

In Christ,
Adam

Could one not also use the Chokti or prayer rope which is usually used for theJesus prayer - I have one with 100 knots and it would be very easy to use it as a counting device for reciting the Kyrie Eleison (or the Hospodi Pomiluy, whichever the case may be.)

Dear Precious Lady,

Now your method is one I've not ever heard of before - and makes eminent sense!

I'll try it - and will remember you as I do.

Alex

Dear Adam,

Very good - I'll have to try this method as well.

I've a bad habit of saying these prayers quickly . . .

Thank you!

Alex

Dear Royal Stuart,

There is an internet way of clicking on a set of circular beads to count - so you are more than correct.

Don't you ever get tired of being correct all the time?

Alex

Phillip Rolfes [themasterbeadsman.blogspot.com] made us a 40 knot rope which I use.

I use the method of "groups of four" advocated by Fr. Geoffrey Kors in his Guide for Readers in the Orthodox Church [asna.ca] (pdf) (see page eight and nine of the file).

Dear JBenedict

Thank you for this - I know Fr. Korz VERY well (from his convert days ).

He actually has a New Martyr Saint in his family lineage.

I like his method as well (he had showed me another method from St Gregory Palamas monastery that seemed complicated to me, but he obviously doesn't include it here).

Thank you, once again.

Alex

Ah, the Master Beadsman!

There really is nothing he cannot do to make praying not only easy, but very desirable.

I haven't communicated with him for a while.

Alex

When I started I used my fingers to keep track in groups of five, but I didn't find that real successful because 8 groups is hard to keep track of.

As we BC clergy do when chanting, I chant in bunches of five, putting the timing accent on the third "Lord have mercy". It's hard to explain but it develops an easy rhythm and the last two are automatic.

After two groups of 5 in English, I chant two groups in Slavonic. At that time (1/2 done) I repeat English and Slavonic. That is the way I'm teaching my granddaughter.

Dear Paul,

This is how our UGCC clergy and monastics do it.

I'll try your method.

Alex