www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy Celebrating the Divine Liturgy "facing the people"

Again, Stuart, when asked to support your position with the relevant Church documents, you evade the issue with an odd response.

Schism? Yes, it exists. It's the reality that we live in and which we pray and work to overcome. To say that there is no separation between Churches East and West is equivalent to a child with hands over the ears yelling, "I don't want to hear it. Lalalala...."
It is a disservice and it weakens your credibility.
With all due respect.

Just recently, I had a very successful collaboration with my Greek Orthodox brethren, but there were things that we were not permitted to do due to our not being in Eucharistic communion with each other. As much as I want it to end, the fact is schism exists.

Behave as if it doesn't and it will end. Be the Fifth Column in the Catholic Church.

Dear Amigo Griego,

All of what you cite simply confirms my belief as state previously.

St John Paul II was simply desirous to put an end to the terrible liberalism and real heresy that the Latin Church is so infected with nowadays - in its parishes, schools, colleges, seminaries.

In truth, much of the Latin Church would fall under interdict on the basis of St John Paul's teaching.

NONE of this applies to the Eastern Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Churches.

Is it a teaching of the Magisterium that our Lady had no sin on her soul ever? The Orthodox Church has believed that from the beginning. It was only because of certain misinterpretations of St Augustine on Original Sin that the Latin Church found itself in a position to have to correct by way of a defined dogma what the Christian East has always believed.

The same goes for every single dogma that Latin Catholics say distinguishes them from the East.

Roman Catholicism should indeed return to the faith and praxis of the united Church of Christ of the first millennium.

It can start by restoring the fasting rules and the like.

Alex

Dear Stuart,

OK, where do I sign up as a "columnist?"

Do you collect any dues for this? What about some additional training.

Oh, and being a Canadian I would never plead the "fifth."

Alex

Dear Griego Amigo,

And the schism would begin to heal itself if both sides acknowledged that they are in schism from each other, that they are in fact in mutual schism and have been hurt, theologically, canonically, liturgically etc. by the fact of that schism.

Roman Catholics started on the road of political correctness by saying that they no longer call the Orthodox "schismatics."

In fact, Roman Catholics are schismatics too.

Unless that sinks in, our separation remains.

Alex

Add using unleavened bread for Communion at this Melkite cathedral in Caracas, Venezuela? The priest and bishop appear to be offering a host in the pictures at the following URLs:

http://catedralsanjorge.org.ve/album/displayimage.php?album=16&pos=4

http://catedralsanjorge.org.ve/album/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=7

Those pictures may not tell the whole story. The Malankara Catholic Church uses flat hosts sometimes, they may or may not be unleavened. In India and where possible, they are leaven then pressed with 13 crosses. In the US, sometimes Latin hosts are easier to come by. Not an excuse, but the reality is this.

The reality in Caracas is, sadly, all too true, as Tomassus suggests. The Melkite Church in Venezuela may well be the most latinized Melkite jurisdiction in the world. Actually, I hope that it is; the thought that there may be another, more latinized, one is frightening!

Many years,

Neil

Dear Brother Neil,

No one is perfect!

There are so many areas in the life of the Melkite Church that I'm very jealous of. For one thing, there is none of the "slave mentality" that affects some other EC Churches or their religious Orders that I know . . .

When the Melkite Church officially adopted the feast of the "Falling Asleep of St Joseph" on March 19 and that of "Corpus Christi" - it did so on its own and because, if I'm correct, because it wanted to as opposed to being "obliged" or "forced" to.

And you commemorate the Pope only once during the Liturgy (is this correct?).

How did you manage to get away with that?

Please accept my humble bow of esteem, sir!

Alex

Even His All-Holiness has celebrated Divine Liturgy facing the people: http://images2.kurir-info.rs/slika-...rvi-manastir-sumela-1328585176-44230.jpg

Slava Isusu Khrestu

May I be allowed to ask this question out of my ignorance but "How do we know that this was a Divine Liturgy that was being celebrated?"

Unworthy
Kolya

Ah ! I think that the priest near the bottom was giving out Holy Communion?????


Unworthy
Kolya

You doubt me???

Here's the full video: http://www.livemedia.gr/video/1305
or read here: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/08/historic-divine-liturgy-at-soumela-in.html

In another group, this came up. The answer was that due to the physical configuration of the rugged site of the former monastery and the large crowd of pilgrims, the Patriarch celebrated facing east and the faithful could not be behind him. Economia, as we like to say.

I don't intend to be disrespectful, but under just what circumstances are Latin hosts "easier to come by" than the traditional bread? The latter is made by the priest himself or someone he delegates, takes several hours (mostly waiting for the dough to rise), and is made of ingredients which are fairly easy to acquire (wheat flour, water, the leaven, a pinch of salt, and a bit of olive oil). As you mentioned, you need the proper seal, but if unstamped Latin hosts are the alternative, you could probably just bake the proper bread without the seal if the priest doesn't have one--but it's not like those are hard to obtain either. I'm struggling to imagine a regular, persistent situation in which Latin hosts would be the only viable alternative.