The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
EasternChristian19, James OConnor, biblicalhope, Ishmael, bluecollardpink
6,161 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,639 guests, and 98 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,508
Posts417,509
Members6,159
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 10 of 10 1 2 8 9 10
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 110
Member
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 110
Quote
The problem with the UGCC is that we appear to have more than one such mother at the present time . . .

Alex,

We have a similar problem in the Assyrian-Chaldean Catholic Church of the East, in that, currently we appear to have two "mothers" as well. One is called the Assyrian Church of the East led by Patriarch Mar Dinkha IV. The other is called the Ancient Church of the East led by Patriarch Mar Addai II.

You know, I really don't consider any of the two to be my mother, instead, I like to refer to them as my sisters, my separated sisters, that is. I do also have another sister with whom I am not separated, and that is the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church of the East. :-)

Ofcourse, we do have a multitude of other sisters as well, but none of them are of the Assyrian-Chaldean tradition.

God bless,

Rony

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Dear Rony,

Thank you for that information!

I love the Assyrian tradition (and pray the psalms using the Assyrian division with the farcings- very inspiring).

There is an Assyrian group of monks who have been given an empty monastery on Mount Athos (they apparently want to go elsewhere as all the icons are not in their tradition, as they say).

Cheers,

Alex

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 643
Likes: 1
T
Member
Member
T Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 643
Likes: 1
From: New Evangelization and Ecumenism

Homiletic & Pastoral Review
September 7, 2013
By Msgr. Daniel S. Hamilton
http://www.hprweb.com/2013/09/new-evangelization-and-ecumenism/


Ecumenism is the effort to re-compose unity among divided Christians. The “new” evangelization is the effort of the Catholic Church to reach out in new and effective ways, first to its own immense membership…


Can Other Church Communions Take Part?


Can the Orthodox Churches, or the Reformation Churches, and their daughter churches be formally associated with the Roman Catholic Church in this new evangelization effort? This would be, admittedly, a gargantuan task. Disagreement over the nature of ecclesia needs to be addressed: by God’s grace the Catholic Church is one, and the fragmentation of other ecclesial communities needs to be addressed and remedied. Yet, these other Christian Church communions (e.g,. the ancient Oriental communities: Coptic, Jacobite, Ethiopian, Armenian and an even older group, the Assyrian Church of the East) have serious problems of interrelationship. These ancient communities of Christians are, sadly, not one Church; as such, among themselves, they cannot speak with one voice. The same is true, but to a lesser extent, for the Byzantine Orthodox Churches.

The Greek Orthodox, Romanian Orthodox, Ukrainian Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, and so forth, took their national origin from the old Byzantine Empire, which fell to the Turks in 1453. Under the titular leadership today of the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople (Istanbul), who is a Greek, these Churches maintain that they are one Church, though autonomous and independent as national or ethnic churches. If we look at them more carefully, however, we find, beyond an admittedly very important creedal and sacramental unity, frequent, serious, and often long-lasting disputes and conflicts among them on administrative and canonical matters. Thus, the ability of these Churches—all in dialogue for decades with the Catholic Church—to cooperate in a unified evangelizing effort is minimal.

New ecumenical dialogues, and their collective dialogue with the Catholic Church over the last 50 years, have improved understating, and overcome some differences, but not resolved the chief obstacles to reconciliation. Orthodox preoccupation with their own ethnicity, particularly in lands to which they have emigrated, their tenaciously held independence in respect to one another, and their long-standing hostility to the “Western” Church, impede their ability to speak with one voice.

A Contemporary Orthodox Problem in North America


Allow me to give you one example of a contemporary Orthodox problem on our own continent. 6 There are about 15 separate (some very small) Orthodox jurisdictions or churches in North America. The Greek Orthodox is the largest; but there are, as already mentioned, Ukrainian, Albanian, Antiochan-Syrian, Bulgarian, Russian (called Orthodox Church in America) Serbian, Romanian, and more.

The Orthodox Mother Churches in Eastern Europe, now for about 50 years, and especially since they were freed for Communist domination, have been planning to hold a General Council of the Orthodox Church. But who will preside? Most Orthodox Churches do not acknowledge any decisive authority in the office of the Ecumenical Patriarch. He is more like a chairman of the board for all the canonical Churches. But they do accept him as the one properly coordinating preparations for this “great and holy” council which has been on the table for about 50 years. To prepare the ground for a council, the Patriarch has recently directed all the separate overlapping Orthodox jurisdictions in the diaspora—a term that denotes Orthodox units outside their Eastern European motherlands, e.g., in North and South America, Western Europe, Oceania—to gather their canonical bishops in an assembly, which is then directed to draw up a blueprint that will settle all their administrative and canonical differences, and produce one unified synodal church in each diaspora area to participate fruitfully in the hoped-for general council of Canonical Orthodox Churches.

The North American Assembly

The previous principal Greek Orthodox bishop (Exarch) in the United States, Archbishop Demetrius, was originally in charge of this reorganization, and provided instructions for unification to the bishops in the separate Orthodox jurisdictions here. He had listed areas where they must reach agreement. Some such areas encompass issues of “canonical normalcy,” which, in fact, involve ecclesiological and sacramental doctrines at odds with one another, and with Catholic teaching. Since the time of the Archbishop’s charge (May, 2010) to the bishops of the separate jurisdictions, no progress has been publically reported. A request for a statement from the Assembly Secretariat has gone without response. Thus it can be concluded if no such progress has been made in bringing the Orthodox bishops together with one another on these issues, any kind of partnership with us in the New Evangelization is an unrealistic goal at this point—and, a fortiori, any partnership with the Reformation Church communions.


Since the Second Vatican Council, the Catholic Church has made numerous, substantial steps of outreach to the Orthodox Churches. The response of the Orthodox Churches has been relatively weak. It is hard at this time to point to any enthusiasm in Orthodoxy for reconciliation with the Catholic Church. Presently, no leaders in Orthodoxy have taken up, with a passion, the goal of restoring the full communion between the Church of Rome and the Byzantine Eastern Churches that existed until roughly 500-600 years ago, when a public break occurred after the Council of Basel-Ferrara-Florence (1438-44). Work does go on—at a rather slow pace—in the International Orthodox-Catholic Theological Commission, but it would seem that, for the sake of progress, some cages will need to be rattled, both in Orthodoxy, and in the upper echelons of the Catholic Church.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
The problem with this article is that it is entirely uncritical of the RC stance in ecumenism and blames Orthodoxy via its "divisions" (read: ecclesial praxis) for lack of progress in unity talks.

In fact, Rome has made NO move to even attempt to reconcile with the Orthodox (save via its theologians whose conclusions are fundamentally ignored by Rome).

The article identifies the "Catholic Church" with the Latin Church and its several (Latinized) EC branches. In short, the article is replete with the kind of problems that emanate from seeing the RC ecclesial praxis as the only valid one.

No effort is made here to understand Orthodox ecclesial/theological praxis and how seriously they are taken. No effort is made to understand how Rome has moved from its own praxis of the first millennium to now where Latin theological/ecclesial praxis is normative for one and all, take it or leave it.

The article does provide a valuable insight in one respect, though.

It shows how hopelessly entangled particular Latin theology is with Rome's view of itself as the standard by which everyone else is to be measured.

This thread has come full circle - to even talk about "divisions" in the Orthodox Church is to betray a fundamental ignorance of Eastern Christian theology. The thread could/should be renamed: "Monolithic Roman Catholicism is holding up progress in the unification of East and West." ("Ecumenical" can mean so many things, a number of which aren't necessarily good . . .).

Alex

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,505
Member
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,505
In fact it was the bishops of the Church of Greece who took a concrete step which has scuttled the dialogue.

Who has not noticed the cessation of the International
Catholic-Orthodox Dialogue? It has happened because the Greek bishops have at last decided to take an immediate interest and a hands-on approach and not to leave the Dialogue in the control of the small group of ecumenicats such as Metropolitan John Zizioulas, titular of Pergamon.


Before the meeting on Cyprus in October 2009 the bishops of the Greek Church studied the Ravenna document and also the "Cretan Unia" a document composed a year earlier on Crete which was created to form the basis of the discussion on Cyprus -- and they were horrified by the extent to which the documents are receptive to unorthodox teaching and especially on ecclesiology and the concept of a universal primacy.


So they clamped down on the Dialogue, hard. At their Synod prior to Cyprus 2009 the bishops ordered that Statements must no longer be issued by the International Dialogue until they had been examined and approved by the bishops.


Metropolitan Zizioulas was thoroughly alarmed by this, and the word enraged is not unfitting for his angry reaction. He wrote a nasty letter to the Greek bishops accusing them of being obscurantist and of making themselves look medieval in front of their flocks. His letter is on the web and I shall find it. The bishops replied; they had the good sense to ignore +Zizioulas' crassness and simply rejected his accusations.


Since then you will notice that neither Cyprus 2009 nor Vienna 2010 have released any Joint Statements. They cannot do so without explicit approval from the Greek bishops. The international meetings which were taking place annually have now ceased.


The bishops, hardliners on matters doctrinal, are now the adjudicators of the Dialogue. Glory to God!


You can find the +Zizioulas letter, and the response of the Greek Synod of Bishops and quite a lot of other documentation here

http://www.impantokratoros.gr/root.en.aspx

and here

http://www.oodegr.com/english/index.htm

A new and imho bmore healthy day is dawning in Orthodox
ecumenism but it does not suit Patriarch Bartholomew nor Metropolitan Zizioulas.

Last edited by Hieromonk Ambrose; 10/30/13 10:15 PM.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,505
Member
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,505
Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
No effort is made here to understand Orthodox ecclesial/theological praxis and how seriously they are taken.

An Orthodox Reply to the Opinion of Cardinal Walter Kasper:
'The Orthodox Church does not really exist'



Cardinal Walter Kasper, President of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, has recently spoken of the difficulties of the Vatican in ecumenical dialogue with the Orthodox Church, stating: 'We are increasingly conscious of the fact that an Orthodox Church does not really exist'. He went on to explain his words, saying that the Vatican had expected that the Patriarchate of Constantinople played a similar role in the Orthodox world to that played by the Papacy in the Roman Catholic world. He had realised that it does not. Hence his personal revelation.

Our reply is that the Orthodox Church does really exist, but, it is true, not at all in the Roman Catholic form imagined by the Cardinal. The latter had conceived of the Orthodox Church as a monolithic and basically secular organisation headed by an Eastern Pope, apparently the Patriarch of Constantinople. This statement by a senior Vatican official once more goes to prove how little the Orthodox Church even today is understood in Rome. The very basics of Orthodox ecclesiology, the Orthodox understanding of the Church, and beyond that, the Orthodox teachings on the Holy Trinity and the Holy Spirit, are still novelties to the mind of the Vatican.


Go to
http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/cardinal.htm

Last edited by Hieromonk Ambrose; 10/30/13 06:39 PM.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,505
Member
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,505
The decisions promulgated by the bishops of the Church of Greece which have, somewhat unexpectedly, terminated the International Catholic-Orthodox Dialogue.

Announcement by the Holy Synod of the Church of Greece regarding the Dialogues with the Latins

http://www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/synodoi/Greece_Synod_Announcement_re_Dialogue.htm



Last edited by Hieromonk Ambrose; 10/30/13 10:18 PM.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,505
Member
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,505
Quote
Thus it can be concluded if no such progress has been made in bringing the Orthodox bishops together with one another on these issues

Is Fr Harrison perhaps a little negative about the cooperation among the bishops of North America?

Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops Makes Progress at 4th Annual Meeting
- See more at: http://assemblyofbishops.org/news/r...ops-makes-progress-at-4th-annual-meeting


Page 10 of 10 1 2 8 9 10

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0