www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Deep fissures develop in the Eastern Orthodox world

Photos of the new Russian church at Phuket, Thailand. With the millions of souls in Asia who do not know Christ any missionary work by any Churches should be welcome.

https://www.facebook.com/orthodox.phuket?viewer_id=659516457

David's explanation of the rift between the Ukrainians and the Rusyns in the early 1900's was excellent and extremely accurate. Though less than ideal, at least the delineation was practical and has been relatively successful. The saving grace was that Rome had the final say. Some of you will say that is just horrible, but if the "canonical territory" argument won, we wouldn't even exist in the USA.

And "canonical territory" is the crux of the whole dispute in Asia, from what I understand. Under which Patriarchate does Asia fall? In practice "canonical territory" doesn't allow evanagelizing "to the ends of the earth", but rather to the ends of "canonical territory." That is the problem in Ukraine, the MP claims that it is the Patriarchate of all the Slav lands, and wherever its descendents settle. The EC, it seems to me "legitimately" that the EC has first claim. By the same argument, the Patriarch of Alexandria (is there one?) would have the whole of Africa as its canonical territory.

We Eastern Catholics have the Pope as our arbitrator; one is lacking for the Orthodox. This is sad, and we see the diseased fruit which has resulted.

So not the case, Father Paul.

There are several Patriarchs in Slav lands.

Descendants of Russians reside in the United States, Israel, Constantinople, Ireland, Australia, and there is not any suggestion the Russian Patriarch is Patriarch of those lands.

Phew! You are more harsh on us than the Pope!

Pope Benedict himself thinks that Orthodoxy has everything - except for the Papacy.

But he states that even without the papacy and without the Magisterium we have kept the faith intact.

Pope Benedict::

"While the West may point to the absence of the office of Peter in the East—it must, nevertheless, admit that, in the Eastern Church, the form and content of the Church of the Fathers is present in unbroken continuity"

~"Principles of Catholic Theology," Cardinal Ratzinger, Ignatius Press, 1987.

Unwittingly the Pope has proclaimed that the papacy is not necessary for the preservation of the true faith.

The Orthodox steadfast witness and adherence to the Apostolic faith since Rome parted company may be seen as startling proof that neither the Papacy nor the Magisterium (seen as so essential by Rome) are at all necessary for the preservation of the Faith.

/\ The above is by way of saying that we possess some wonderful fruit. And if the Holy Spirit has maintained the Apostolic faith intact in us for 2 millennia He will certainly get us past these stupid transient quarrels over territory.
Fr Ambrose

And this is the case. Missionary monks from Athos and priests from Greece work in African countries with permission from the Patriarch of Alexandria. Serbs create parishes in South Africa and other places and they commemorate the Patriarch of Alexandria at all church services.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Fr. Deacon. We have our own issues of "diseased fruit."

Just fyi, in Indonesia both the MP and ROCOR are not in communion with the EP parishes. This has been going on since 2007 when Fr Daniel Byantoro, the "illuminator of Indonesia". Made themove to ROCOR shortly before its reunion with MP.
Pat. Alexy II awarded Fr. Daniel a mitre in mid 2008.

I apologize for the impression that I apparently gave about "diseased fruit." We all have our share of "diseased fruit" but the root and trunk are strong. My intention was only to describe the frustrating disputes over missionary territory which were previously mentioned.

I wish the best for the Orthodox Churches and all the patriarchates. I pray for their unity and strength in this worldly culture in which the faith of so many are tested.. The more unified the Orthodox are, the better the chance for an honest, sincere and permanent unity of all the Apostolic Churches.

It happens, Father. Rome at war with Constantinople over mission in Bulgaria. Rome also at war over mission in territories bordering on Russia and Ukraine. Quarrels which flared and died.

I have no idea!

After my initial post in the thread, I don't think it's really that significant. I've talked this over with respected friends during the weekend. There's no news here, a tempest in a tea pot started by agenda driven "journalists."

As to Fr. A's post and what I bolded, I'm guessing the then-Cardinal's comments were not inadvertent. The next time the Pope emeritus is over for a chat, let's be sure to ask him!

I've kept an eye on Russian blogs and e-groups. So far this hasn't had a mention.

I believe this to be nothing more than ill informed journalistic muckraking. If, and this is a big "if", this is true, this just destroys what little credibility the current Bishop of Constantinople still holds. After his disastrous meddling in the internal affairs of the Estonian and Ukrainian Churches, to label the Russian Church schismatic is just insane. The order of the Diptychs need to be changed and the Ecumenical See needs to be moved to the true center of Orthodoxy, Third Rome.

And how many schisms will that create? Good luck.

The ordering (taxis) of the Diptychs is the first item on the agenda at this upcoming (maybe 8th Ecumenical) Council. Serbia has already generously offered to step down a notch to enable the ancient Church of Cyprus to occupy a higher position. A magnanimous gesture.

I think the proposal to advance Moscow to first place will cause schism with the Greeks. Let the ancient Patriarchates (Constantinople, Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem) keep their ancient prestige. Maybe slot Moscow in right behind them.