www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Reasons for Choosing Between Churches

Also, another point I forgot to mention in my last post. You're already "indirectly" involved in the melee. It's not as if the other Indian Christian denominations, particularly those of Syriac heritage, have not involved themselves and taken advantage of the situation.

Just recently, the head of the MTC made some comments about how all the Syrian Christians in India should recognise the authority of the Patriarch of Antioch. Those comments were made among the Jacobite bishops and were used against our jurisdiction. The irony of a Metropolitan of a Syrian rite Protestant denomination affirming Antiochian authority while at the same time rejecting the Antiochian faith is not lost on me.

The Eastern Catholics are not blameless in this regard either, though they are more clever in how they go about it. But even historically, the case can be made that the Church in India would not be divided into so many feuding denominations were it not for the Portuguese RC's. The Church in India wouldn't have been under Rome without that influence, but it would've been stronger and more united than it is today. Just by staying where you are, you are indirectly affirming a certain history clothed in RC faith convictions, however involuntary that is.

We have inherited a mess. Both staying put and switching sides present their own challenges. Ultimately, however, these decisions have to be made on the basis of faith. Christ is able to work with that, wherever he finds us.

Rev. Dn., Thanks for that frank statement. The thing is, for me the Malankara faith IS the Orthodox faith of the Catholic Church. I wouldn't change anything of my faith in either of the two Orthodox jurisdiction or my Catholic one. The only difference is praxis. Ideally, the ECs should be following their Orthodox sister Churches practices/praxis with fervour, sometimes I notice that it's not even with enthusiasm but a "toleration" mentality, if lucky; other times, its outright hostility. This is much less among Malankara Syrian Catholics but its still around in some circles, especially where we are minority. Anyway, who wants to deal with that from enemies.. much less, so-called "friends".

I don't put much stock in the MTC bishops' statements, it seems their grasp of history and theology is severely lacking, to the point of absurdity and sometimes heterodoxy.

As for those pesky Portuguese RCs - well, I suppose we would have never inherited the West Syriac Tradition without them. So.. God works in mysterious ways.

I would think, without the Portuguese, the Church in India would be firmly under the Chaldean Catholic Patriarch, who is united to Rome. In an odd way, we were spared the Chaldean latinizations of the late 1800s and 1900s by separating and being united to the Syriac Patriarch. Not to be mean, but I prefer our Liturgy to the Syro-Malabar recension of the Chaldean Rite as well!

If you really believe that, then go (or stay) where you can grow. I received just that advice on this forum many years ago, and I pass it on to you.

You're very polite. A credit to your parents.


Well played! I prefer our rite, but the real East Syriac rite is not bad at all, I enjoy it a lot.


How do you figure?

Sorry, the truth is, the bishops and their clergy have said absurd things in regard to theology and history within recent years, as well as in the past. This includes the stated reasons for separating from the Orthodox Church.

I do as well... when it is properly practiced.

From my studies, around the time of the Koonan Cross, the Chaldean Church had three separate Patriarchates, of which two out of three were united to Rome at any given point, including the Patriarch who was denied landing in Kerala by the Portuguese (and sent to Rome - where he received a letter from the Pope giving him access to Kerala, which was ignored by the Portuguese).

A pretty good read of the back and forth within the Chaldeo-Assyrian Patriarchate at the time: http://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bitstream/10603/603/8/08_chapter2.pdf

I was serious about you being polite, it wasn't sarcasm. I would've pulled less punches. Truly, they have uttered more stupidities than I care to remember because they're too busy trying to be something other than everything else while not knowing what they themselves are.


OK, you had a much smaller time period in mind. I thought you were implying that the Indian Church was under the Chaldeans for most of its history until the Portuguese arrived...I thought fifteen centuries was a long time to be under Rome and not know it. :P

It's not the first time this has been said here but, apparently, it needs repetition. On a Latin forum, trad or otherwise, videos of liturgical abuse in the Latin Church may be welcomed topics. On this site they generally are not.

That such will sometimes factor into decisions as to the Church in which one elects to worship is a given. Yet, it will not be a tie-breaker for others, to whom it is an annoyance happening at a cousin's house and of neither interest nor concern.

The truest and most relevant comment offered here is that by Deacon Phil

(italicized text added)

Regardless, we've seen the videos before (e.g., the 'puppet Mass' is truly old news) and who cares about the website of a Latin priest in Germany, whose site is in German? Not the vast majority of our members, Catholic, Orthodox, or otherwise, I'll wager.

The thread has been renamed and moved. Some thread content has been deleted, including some links. The thread is focused at present on the much more relevant and interesting discussion between Deacon Phil and Michael about the divisions among the Churches of the St Thomas Christians and how such factor into decision-making as to in which one will worship

Posts to this thread that seek to revive the discussion of Latin Rite liturgical abuse will be deleted. It's not a relevant topic here. Anyone wishing to comment on such matters can do so in the Town Hall forum, but are cautioned that there are limits to how much discussion of it will be tolerated there as well. If you're desperate to discuss it, you might better take the matter to CAF, Fisheaters, or elsewhere, where folks revel in rehashing it.

Many years,

Neil