www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy Maronite Liturgy of the Holy Mysteries Revision

Hi, does anyone know where one may obtain the revised Maronite "Liturgy of the Holy Mysteries"? It is supposed to be closer to the Syriac "Divine Liturgy of Antioch" than previously.

There are 5 Maronite Churches within 50 miles but none have any material to sell or give out.

Thank you and God Bless.

George The Latin

The Qurbono, the Book of Offering, the Service of the Holy Mysteries according to the Antiochene Syriac Maronite Church (hows that for a title?) is available in 5 volumes from St. Maron Publications
http://www.stmaron.org/pubs.html#liturgy

Shlomo George waAbuna Lance,

The Qorbono that Fr. Deacon Lance quotes is considered out of date and when the texts from our Holy Synod is translated into English then the new Qorbono will be the newly authorized.

We hope to have in place these revisions within the next 5 years, God Willing.

The reason for this delay is that we are going to have a new Eparch here in the U.S. and since the election of the new Patriarch, we have had a shake down if you will on how Our Church will be governed and how much de-Latinizing we will put in place.

Fush BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon

Sean, my brother,

As regards the new Eparch, I presume that Sayendna Robert is planning retirement, as he's close to 75 yrs old if I remember correctly. May God grant him many more years.

As to your other observation, is it to suggest that de-latinization will be speeded up or slowed down?

Many years,

Neil

Shlomo Neal,

Mext month Sayenda Robert is 75. I wish that he would not submit his retirement since I feel that such a requirement on us Eastern Catholics is a direct interference in the governence of our Churches by Rome.

De-Latinization will be slowed down since with a new heirarch we will have a few years in which we will get to know him. Sayenda Gregory has another 18 years to go so here is hoping that he can help his new partner here in North America get upto speed.

One of the great things for us here in the US is that all of our protentical Eparchs have been involved in getting the US Maronite Church on the road to proper forms of worship and education. We are truly blessed with candidates for this very important office. I shall not name any because I do not wish to imply that I favor any, nor do I wish to imply that I wish for Sayenda to leave office. I was and am proud that the American Maronite Church let the Mother Church know that we are mature enough to govern ourselves without having an Eparch from Lebanon. I will say that one candidate was born in Lebanon, but he has been here for so long that he is Americanized (in the good sense) and he as well as the others will lead us forward.

Fush BaShlomo,
Yuhannon (Shawn)

P.S. Dear brother, my name is phonetically spelled.

My dear friend and brother,

I am embarrassed by how many times you have pointed that out to me over the years (particularly since I pride myself on both a remarkably good memory and how careful I seek to be in addressing folk by the name they prefer - and, definitely, by the spelling they use). If you were to go back over our exchanges through the years, you'd find me regularly vacillating between the two. I'll try harder

But, while we're on the subject, my name (Neil, not Neal) isn't spelled phonetically (or, maybe it is - I can't decide as I sit here and say it aloud). Ah well, we both know with whom we're speaking .

On a more serious note, I heartily agree with you when you say That's a truism which, as you know, finally came to pass for we of your Sister Church in Sayedna Nicholas' enthronement last year.

And, again, when you say Sayedna Robert has served your Church well and his leadership will be missed. May God grant him many more years.

Many years,

Neil

Thank you all for the information especially Yuhannon.

I would personally consider it a blessing never to have to deal with the 2005 missal. The 1992 version was bad enough, but the 2005 is really the best example of Novus Ordo-inspired neo-latiniation in the world.

Examples?

If one looks at the structure of the "old" liturgy and compares it with the 1992 & 2005 versions, I think it's obvious. It's even clear when comparing the current stuff with the ad experimentum versions commonly used from 1973 until the 1992 thing appeared.

For example, in addition to the versus populum table (with which we have (for the most past) been saddled since 1969), there is now a strictly Novus Ordo-style "offertory" including the so-called "procession" by the laity. Further examples include: the idea of "low voice" prayers is now considered passé (there are, at most, two left); the idea of "servants of the Lord" no longer exists and has been replaced with "children;" with one exception in the anaphora, the diaconal admonitions and proclamations are history; the several "prayers over bowed heads" are now done to a seated congregation; the "foremass" (and this is even more Novus Ordo than the Novus Ordo)is now normally done from a podium (forever versus populum! ), etc etc ad nauseam. I could go on in minute detail, (which would take weeks and I'm not about to embark on such a project in a public forum) but I think you get the idea.

I visited a local Syrian Catholic Church (the only one in this area) one Sunday to see the Liturgy, expecting at least something like what I have seen in recordings of the Syrian Divine Liturgy done by the non-Chalcedonians(I was really looking forward to it!)-well, I was quickly disappointed! Whatever kind of "reform" was done to the liturgy, it was obviously modeled after the Paul VI's "Novus Ordo"-and, of course, we gotta have some altar girls, female readers at the pulpit, the "bringing up of the gifts", the versus populum table, a bizarre sanctuary set-up...I walked out half-way through-I couldn't take it!
A monastic I know also told me of an experience he had attending a Maronite Liturgy not too long ago-he said it was so much like the "Novus Ordo" he would never go to a Maronite Liturgy again!

What is with these Eastern Catholic Bishops and their obsession with "reform" that is more often than not "deform"!???
So much for authentic eastern liturgy!

Sad... There is a Syrian Catholic parish near my home. I had wanted to attend the liturgy there but not if it's supper Latinized. The local Maronite parish falls into the camp of Latinized but I hear the local Chaldeans are trying to return to their Church of the East roots.

I may go to a Maronite liturgy, some day to see, for myself, the degrees of remaining Latinization. I know I've been recommended to check it out, by a Latin rite catholic parishioner I bumped into, Thursday morning. But, being entrenched, and getting more and more comfortable with the Byzantine rite, I still don't think it's time to jump out, just yet.. Further, I've already established a connection with the Byzantine pastor, as my Spiritual Father. Who knows when I'll ultimately make a trip out there.

I have been to the Syrian Catholic Church in LA and was very disapointed at how everything was so very Latinised. I had seen their liturgy also when they used a local Melkite Church because it was bigger than their own church and it was plain to see that the Catholics are very different from the Syriac Orthodox church. The current Patriarch presided, as he was then the Bishop for the USA. We had guitars accommpanying the choir. It was not very nice really. I have to say if you want to attend a Syriac Liturgy (the real thing) go to the Orthodox Church. The Syriac Catholic Church would disapoint you. I was not impressed by nasty looking Italian statues, the altar the wrong way and the confession through a screen embedded in a wall.

There is a Maronite Church in Canada which is working hard to improve liturgical practice. I don't know how they got started doing this but I applaud their efforts.

Saint Charbel Maronite Church [stcharbel.org]