The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Frank O, BC LV, returningtoaxum, Jennifer B, geodude
6,176 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 434 guests, and 103 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,524
Posts417,636
Members6,176
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994
Likes: 10
A
Moderator
Member
Moderator
Member
A Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994
Likes: 10
Okay friends, I am sending what I received from my priest. Please send this petition around to anyone and everyone and on all forums. Facebook pages, and lists.Get the word around, this is an affront for all Christians, no matter the faith tradition or denomination.

Thanks!


As some may have heard and from the email letter below there is a real movement
in Turkey to convert the historic Hagia Sophia into a mosque. Over 20,000 people
have already signed our petition to stand up for Hagia Sophia.

We'll be delivering the petition directly to UNESCO on December 10th, so please add your
name right now to make sure your signature is included:

http://hellenicleaders.com/HagiaSophia

Please click on the link and sign your name. It would be tragic if we don’t wake up our people and get thousands of signatures.

Agape,

Fr. Elias

Friend --

Just a few days ago, Turkey's deputy prime minister stood next to Hagia Sophia
and made a shocking statement:

“We currently stand next to the Hagia Sophia Mosque […] we are looking at a sad
Hagia Sophia, but hopefully we will see it smiling again soon.”

There is a movement afoot in Turkey to convert the glorious Hagia Sophia into a
mosque. Hagia Sophia is one of the oldest basilicas in the world. It is part of
a UNESCO World Heritage site. It symbolizes the very history of Christianity and
the glorious grandeur of Byzantine architecture.

Help us fight efforts to convert Hagia Sophia into a mosque:

http://hellenicleaders.com/HagiaSophia<http://salsa3.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=1QJM8cI9dkhsWkEaBx6EE1PAR2GtECAn>

For nearly 80 years, Hagia Sophia has operated as a museum, allowing millions of visitors across faiths and demographics to enter and appreciate the masterpiece mosaics, iconography and architecture. Now, a bill has been introduced in Turkish parliament to convert Hagia Sophia into a mosque so that it may once again be turned into what the bill's sponsor calls "a symbol of the Conquest of Istanbul."

Stand up for Hagia Sophia. Add your name to our petition. We'll deliver the
petition directly to UNESCO and the Turkish government.

http://hellenicleaders.com/HagiaSophia<http://salsa3.salsalabs.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=CFUENc3JROYpbN1FBCH94lPAR2GtECAn>

Thanks for taking action on this important issue,

Endy Zemenides
Executive Director
HALC






Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
The Turks took better care of Hagia Sophia when it was a mosque, so maybe that would be for the best. On the other hand, all that UNESCO World Heritage Site money would go away, so I'm guessing it's all talk and no action.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
And, by the way, time to put the Megali Idea to bed once and for all. It's as silly as Third Romism.

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994
Likes: 10
A
Moderator
Member
Moderator
Member
A Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994
Likes: 10
Ignoring the above comments, the petition has received more than the 20,000 signatures needed, thank God--from people all over the Christian world.


Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
Waste of time. The Turks don't care. But it doesn't really matter, because they won't do it--too many tourist and UN dollars at stake.

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 25
Junior Member
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 25
Make it both. .... Friday services to be Islamic with the lectern turned pointing to Mecca. Sunday Christian (both Catholic & Protestant) alternating services pointing lectern to Jerusalem . The rest of the time for tourists and maintenance. November, closed for restoration back to original. This is in the interest of Turkey to cooperate with the EU, bridges the gap of Islam and Christians, restores gaps in Christianity.

The Admin is to be secular under the voters of Istanbul.

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 6
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 6
Originally Posted by zarastra
Make it both. .... Friday services to be Islamic with the lectern turned pointing to Mecca. Sunday Christian (both Catholic & Protestant) alternating services pointing lectern to Jerusalem . The rest of the time for tourists and maintenance. November, closed for restoration back to original. This is in the interest of Turkey to cooperate with the EU, bridges the gap of Islam and Christians, restores gaps in Christianity.

The Admin is to be secular under the voters of Istanbul.


Whoa! I don't think so! Are you really serious, because I can't tell?

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 82
F
Member
Member
F Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by Slavipodvizhnik
Originally Posted by zarastra
Make it both. .... Friday services to be Islamic with the lectern turned pointing to Mecca. Sunday Christian (both Catholic & Protestant) alternating services pointing lectern to Jerusalem . The rest of the time for tourists and maintenance. November, closed for restoration back to original. This is in the interest of Turkey to cooperate with the EU, bridges the gap of Islam and Christians, restores gaps in Christianity.

The Admin is to be secular under the voters of Istanbul.


Whoa! I don't think so! Are you really serious, because I can't tell?

You forgot one important point. You mentioned Catholics and Protestants, but forgot the Greek Orthodox. After all it was originally our Cathedral.
By the way, traditionally Christians have placed the Altar in the East end of the Church building so that they are praying facing East not towards Jerusalem. The symbolism is so strong that even in a Church building where it is not possible to put the Altar in the East end, the Altar area is still referred to as the East end of the Church regardless of the actual geographical position. The idea is that Christians pray towards the rising sun because Christ is the light of the world, the Sun of Righteousness.
Leave it a museum, because it is an artistic treasure that belongs to the heritage of all humanity. Besides, I doubt that the small Greek Orthodox community still in Istanbul could afford to maintain the building. It would be a crime against humanity if the ancient and priceless mosaics were to be covered up or destroyed by Islamic militants.
Fr. John W. Morris

Last edited by Fr. John Morris; 12/07/13 03:38 PM.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,724
Likes: 2
B
Member
Member
B Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,724
Likes: 2
One could always hope for a re-conquest as happened when the Moors were driven out of Spain. I seriously doubt that the Greeks could ever pull themselves together enough to do anything like that. They are too busy fighting each other, sad to say.

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 25
Junior Member
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 25
Correct: Islamic Friday then Catholic , Greek Orthodox / Protestant Evangelicals share Sunday. Congregations take collections / web donations to pay for service rental and utilities to Admin.

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994
Likes: 10
A
Moderator
Member
Moderator
Member
A Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,994
Likes: 10
Here is a Turk who agrees with zarastra:

ecumenical hagia Sophia [johnsanidopoulos.com]

Quote
Let’s Just Reopen Hagia Sophia as Church/Mosque

Mustafa Akyol
August 27, 2010
Hurriyet Daily News

The museumization of places of worship used to happen in communist dictatorships such as the Soviet Union. Turkey should not follow that bad example — at least anymore.

If I were on a jury to choose the best opinion leader in contemporary Turkey, I would probably vote for Dr. Ali Bardakoğlu, the top official cleric in the country. For the erudite theologian does not only represent an Islam with a smiling face. He also defends religious freedom for all.

In fact, the institution he heads, the Directorate of Religious Affairs, is an odd one: Since Turkey claims to be a “secular state,” it actually should not have such an official ministry for religion. But most official concepts in Turkey have self-styled meanings that are different from their universal definitions, and “secularism” is no exception. Here, the term means not the separation of state and religion, but the dominance of the former over the latter.

A golden era

But the ideal nature of Turkish secularism is not what I want to discuss today. The reality is that we have had the Directorate of Religious Affairs since 1924, the year the caliphate was abolished. Another reality is that the institution has been quite a boring and uninspiring one throughout the 20th century. Only in 2003, when the newly elected Justice and Development Party, or AKP, government appointed Dr. Bardakoğlu as its president, did the institution enter into a golden era.

The change was not just in the growing influence and the visibility of the Directorate of Religious Affairs. It was also in the liberal positions that Dr. Bardakoğlu took on a number of issues. In 2004, he spoke about the need for “updating our religious understanding,” according to changing times. The next year, for the first time in Islamic history, he appointed two women as counselors for mosques in Istanbul and Kayseri.

In 2006 Bardakoğlu made the news with another statement: “There cannot be a hadith which says ‘the best women are those who are like sheep.’” This was an introduction to a project going on in the Directorate of Religious Affairs for a while to create a new collection of hadiths (prophetic sayings) that would exclude some of misogynistic statements in the classical literature, or to put them into their right contexts. (The project is still going on, and will reportedly be done toward the end of this year.)

In April 2007, something terrible happened in Turkey: Three Christian missionaries were brutally murdered by a group of Turkish ultra-nationalists in the eastern city of Malatya. In a press conference, Bardakoğlu not only denounced the murderers but also said: “It is their [the missionaries’] natural right to preach their faith. We must learn to respect even the personal choice of an atheist, let alone other religions.”

This week, Bardakoğlu took another good step, by congratulating the Christian mass in the Sümela Monastry, which had been closed for 88 years. He said this was not enough, and that other churches that have been turned into “museums,” such as the St. Paul Church in Tarsus, should be reopened to Christian services as well.

I could not agree more. This whole “museumization” of places of worship is actually quite disturbing. Such things used to happen in communist dictatorships such as the Soviet Union, which is, fortunately, in the dustbin of history now. Turkey should not follow that bad example — at least anymore.

When we speak about places of worship that were turned into museums, it is impossible to overlook the greatest of all, the Hagia Sophia. And this week Bardakoğlu spoke about re-opening this 16-century-old masterpiece to worship as well. But it was not clear to me what form of worship he meant.

This is a place, after all, which is sacred for both Christians and Muslims. It served Christians from 360, when it was built by the Byzantine Emperor Constantine II, to 1453, when Constantinople was conquered by the Ottomans. The latter converted Hagia Sophia into a mosque, and it served Muslims from then to 1935, when Atatürk turned the building into a museum.

Ecumenical Hagia Sophia

Therefore, whatever your opinion on the conversion of Hagia Sophia from a cathedral to a mosque might be, you have to see that the building has a history with both religions. It is also true that both Christians and Muslims would love to have it back. So, one is inevitably forced to ask, which religion should have it?

My answer is that both should have it. The magnificent temple, in other words, should be shared by Christians and Muslims, both with regards to space and time.

For Islam, this is not something unheard of. The Grand Umayyad Mosque of Damascus was shared by Muslims and Christians for a period in the early seventh century. If we do that again in Turkey in the 21st century, we will be accomplishing something great — not just for both faiths, but also the fate of the world.

I made this suggestion a few years ago in a Turkish piece, and received both support and anger from readers. (Support came from theologically-driven Muslims and anger from the nationalism-driven ones.) It showed me that such a Christo-Muslim Hagia Sophia would be difficult, but not impossible to achieve.

If Dr. Bardakoğlu promotes such an ecumenical reopening of the great shrine, it might become a bit more plausible. I am sure he would be sympathetic to the idea. I even feel that he has the guts for it.




Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 6
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 6

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 25
Junior Member
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 25
Dr. Bardakoğlu proposal is a great step forward; However, Adm. and financials are the central issues that guides who can use the Grand Church. With my proposal, the democratic people of Istanbul forms the electorate of the Administration. The Adm set all budgeting, hires: maintenance of the buildings, Grounds, parking, water, sanitation, security scheduling of the service,....... and settle which denominations get the all day/night Fridays and Sundays and establish ticket pricing at at first nominal 100EU each pilgrim.

Maintenance costs a lot of money and the throngs of religious pilgrims would jump to the chance to have their services in Aigia Sophia. (Which would include Millions EU in Hotels, food, tourism, Business, Banking and fun). Bottom line, The Turks are going to make it profitable or tare it down to a Soccer Stadium. Think about it.

What would Constantine The Great decide.

zarastra

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 25
Junior Member
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 25
The Friday Mosque/ Sunday Cathedral is 90% serious.

As I said above, Agia Sophia will be turned to a financially viable facility whether it is a Soccer Stadium a Mosque or a museum. Which do you prefer????

[Linked Image]

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 6
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 6
Methinks Russia needs to step up to the plate once again. Shut off the gas supply to Turkey until Hagia Sophia is returned to the Greeks. As far as sharing the Church with saracens and other Christian denominations, well, it's a non start with the Orthodox Church. The Altar of the first Church in Christendom cannot be defiled by those outside the faith.

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Irish Melkite, theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0