www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Atheism and Orthodoxy in Modern Russia

Propaganda need not be false. The word itself simply means propagation (of a point of view)--as in the Propaganda Fidei, or Congregation for Propagation of the Faith. Everything it churns out is "propaganda" in the truest sense of the word.

We in the business like to distinguish between three different types of propaganda: white, gray, and black.

White propaganda is simply factual statements presented in a manner that presents a particular perspective. As I did (I'll back up everything I ever said about Vladimir Putin with multiple sources). Radio Free Europe and the BBC World Service during the Cold War were excellent examples of white propaganda outlets.

Gray propaganda consists of true statements put out under a false flag, so as to increase its credibility with the target audience. Thus, were I to write an article about Putin and then put it out on something looking like an official Russian source, that would be gray propaganda.

Black propaganda can consist of truth or falsehood, published openly or covertly, with the intent to deceive and confound. I suspect this is what you accuse me of writing. I assure you I am not. If you are confused or confounded, it's only because your illusions about Russia are being shattered. I feel your pain.

Indeed. But you are in denial because of your extreme bias.



I am neither confused nor confounded....and I have no illusions.


I know not of which pain you might feel....but it's not mine.

Metropolitan Hilarion [Alfeyev] expressed his wish that... systematic protection of Christians subjected to persecution in different countries will be one of the trends in Russian foreign policy. At the conclusion of his speech, Metropolitan Hilarion noted that "Strong Russia is the country which protects Christian minorities in these countries and insists on providing guaranties for the rights of Christians being observed in exchange for political support or economic aid." Vladimir Putin said in reply: "You can be sure of it. There is no doubt about that."

Putin's vigorous approach to foreign policy is like clear, fresh water, after being exposed for so long to the muck of the Obama administration's incomprehensible support of toxic Islamic extremists and terrorists in Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Syria and elsewhere.

The United States, unmoored from her Christian and moral foundations, and with her leadership enabling Islamic extremists and terrorists, herself founders in the raging waves of history, and has already abandoned the world's Christians to perish in the tempest.

Whereas it is Russia, led by her revitalized Christian conscience - personified in the resurgent Russian Orthodox Church- which presents an image of assured strength, moral clarity, and unflinching resolve in the face of evil. Russia has founded her house on a rock, and, having been already tested by decades of persecution, knows how to endure the storms of history.
http://facingislam.blogspot.com/

Dear Recluse,

You make very clear and good points. Thank you for sharing them.

Whether or not others agree with you, sarcasm never makes a convincing or respectable valid counter argument.

Alice

P.S. I liked the link:


Though we are going a bit off topic, as Bob reminded us.

I would like to be able to discuss Russia's religious reawakening, its challenges, and its history without constantly hearing Putin bashing.

It is getting almost as boring as the days of Bush bashing and his name being invoked for everything from the weather to the economy!

Great posts Recluse! I agree with Alice about the harping on Putin. Is Russia perfect? No, but then neither is America. In fact I think America has become a warmongering evil empire.

When did that happen?

I wouldn't call America a warmongering evil empire. What I would say, is that the U.S. became an interventionist country after World War II, and hasn't stopped intervening in world events since. We haven't done that great a job with it, and the results from our interventions haven't been stellar. Maybe it needs re-thinking, and we should let other countries settle more of their affairs without our interference.

In the words of Sgt. Barnes, "What do you know about killing?" Let the politics of the thread go. Better yet, let us turn the lens upon ourselves.

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

As a point the Pew poll above states that only 1.6% of Americans are atheist and 2.4% are agnostic. So less than 3% of the population. I dont believe that. In other words, millions that check the box, Christian, are really loosely affiliated with the "idea." One thing that it did say was that the country was on the verge of becoming a protestant minority.

Gallup in 2004 reported that 41% of Americans attend services regularly. What is regularly? Pascha and Nativity with a few baptisms thrown in. I know people who never showed up unless there was a bishop present. Yet in good standing because of their weekly donations.

http://www.churchleaders.com/pastor...ook-at-church-attendance-in-america.html

Never mind the use of protestant terminology, such as their use of the term Orthodox Christian. However this poll shows some more realistic numbers. The real week to week numbers is 17.7%. Or 52 million

Of that the real question that was asked was frequency.78 million self identified protestants stated that that was around 12 times a year.

With all that being said; I think for a country that had violent opposition to Christianity for the first 40 years. And a loose tolerance, or KGB controlled, acceptance for the next 40. Russia is too early in the game to see who is winning.

In the USA, ours is a slow death.

America has been interventionist for decades. It has been a warmongering power for more than 10 years. But hey, our present Commander in Chief is a Nobel Peace Prize winner with a kill list, so what do you expect.

I guess we have differing views on America. In the last years of her life my dearly departed mother used to say "This is not the country I was born and raised in." I can say the same thing. America is a morally bankrupt society, and I am ashamed to say I am a citizen of this country. The federal government has successfully killed my patriotism.

Yes. Slow and steady.

I am in complete agreement with this. It is very sad. A very pious Orthodox nun once said to me (with a tear running down her cheek): "Our children are the ones who are really going to suffer."

I have never seen the powers of secular humanism advance with such lightning speed since this president was elected (twice).

Gay "marriage" is advancing throughout all the states. Tax dollars are funneled to the abortion mill, Planned Parenthood, so that they can advance their practice of abortion on demand. Contraception coverage is being forced down the throats of the Catholic institutions and others. Socialized healthcare is being forced on the American people against their will. Recreational Marijuana is legalized in two states. Transgender children are being allowed to choose a bathroom in the schools. Christianity is labeled as "extremism" in the U.S. military. Terrorists in Syria are given assistance. The Muslim brotherhood was supported in Egypt. There have been gun running scandals, IRS scandals, and the scandal in Libya. The president simply issues executive orders to bypass the congress.

Political correctness has run amok.

The list goes on and on. We are lost.....and a wave of apathy envelops the country.

Christians need to get on their knees every night and pray to our Lord and God and Saviour, Jesus Christ, to deliver us from the scourge that is ravishing this country.

Only Christ can save us.

Do we know Christ has given up on us? Until we are sure that He has, why should we give up on ourselves? I meet many good people who are not pleased with the way things are. They are looking for guidance and leadership and are prayerful people. The advice to pray is the right thing to do, and prayer with like-minded people is even better.

It might be good for this thread to return to the topic of atheism and Orthodoxy in Russia and leave the U.S. for another thread.

If Christians in the U.S. did more than just cry about how bad things are and made their collective weight felt in the political sphere (which they can still do if they wanted to), change, for the better, is possible.

What is happening here is the fault of Christians, not of the government since, as someone said, in a democracy people get the government they deserve - and they get it good.

As for how good or bad modern Russia is - let's not let our depression over the fallen West make us create something that is more the product of wishful thinking than of reality.

Ask those who have recently come here from Russia about Putin's regime there and ask them to compare Russia and the West.

I'm having lunch with just such a one next week and I intend to show him the posts of this thread for his perusal and comment.

He is a pious Orthodox Christian who has his own views about Russian society today.

I've already warned him against any anti-Putin propaganda during our conversation - otherwise, I will get up and leave the restaurant . . .

Down with the U.S. imperialists!!

Long live the Third Rome!!

God bless Vladimir Putin!!

(I can adapt to the political correctness of this thread just fine.)

Alek