www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Why some UGCCs use Julian Calendar

I attend liturgy at a ROCOR church, so I favor the Julian calendar. That said, it always amuses me when Old Caledrists make a doctrinal issue out of the 1923 decision by Constantinople, accusing the Patriarch of something like Uniatism...when actual "uniates" would still be in the Julian calendar, at least in N. America for another few decades or so!
The Revised Calendar unnecessarily disrupted the Orthodox world, which spawned an even worse chain reaction...the endless alphabet soup of various Old Calendar Greek schisms and their superkosher, mostly convert, comrades in the West.

One Orthodox bishop I met not too long ago told me members of his flock are very much for the Julian Calendar - but then don't attend the Liturgy on the Feast of the Nativity because they have to go to work etc.

He said he would change to the Revised calendar "tomorrow," but that he would never want to happen in his jurisdiction what happened in the UGCC - two calendars that created a "schism" of sorts from within.

Alex

It's awful having our diocese split between the calendars. One way or the other is the only option, it was painful for the OCA but they bit the bullet and most got over it. I understand the BCC did that in the 1950s but not the UGCC. It's hard to explain rationally to children why we are old calendar but uncle so and so' s church is new.

I often wonder what might have occurred but for the Bolsheviks when the Hellenes and south Slavs changed in the 1920s I've always suspected that nothing wold have been done until a democratic Russia adopted the civil Gregorian calendar. Perhaps all eastern Christians would still be on the Julian....

Alex,

I'm afraid I was a little unclear as to the meaning of your question: are you talking about people who follow the Julian Calendar, but then don't keep January 7 (or December 25, either) as a holy day?

I suppose that if they celebrated Svyat Vechir on January 6, they should *technically* still observe January 7 as a holy day, including abstaining from work on that day. However, I wouldn't see that as being on the same level with "elevating human traditions above those that are divine."


Peace,
Deacon Richard

At least two OCA parishes close to me, in the Pacific Central Deanery, Nativity in Menlo Park [tserkov.org] and St. John the Baptist in Berkeley [stjohnthebaptistberkeley.org] are on the old calendar. I would dearly love to go to Berkeley for Vespers, Bridegroom services etc., an easy 15 minute drive from my home, but makes no sense when we are not on the same calendar. So my choices for Vespers etc. same calendar as my parish are to go an hour in traffic and bridge toll to my parish for Reader's Vespers, or same toll and time to the OCA cathedral, or an hour and bridge toll to San Anselmo OCA, or an hour to the OCA monastery in Castro Valley. More often I go 15 mins up the hill to the Greeks or stay home and read the prayers and readings from the website. Same issue for other parishioners from my ECC parish and from the OCA who live in the East Bay.

West Coast OCA parishes using the Julian are either blessed with a large immigrant Russian population or they were part of the "satellites" of St. Herman's Monastery of Seraphim Rose's fame-- they were meant to be a leaven to other jurisdictions.
The church I attended on Julian Christmas was packed...lots of Russian immigrants called in sick, I guess.
When Revised jurisdictions have thriving monasteries, maybe that will convince me that the Revised Julian is the way to go.

Even though I attend a Church on the Revised Julian, I will never be convinced that it is the way to go. I hope, (and I pray), that one day all Orthodox Churches will be on the same calendar......the Julian calendar.

Amen. My ECC parish was on the Julian calendar until the OCA Orthodox Cathedral and most parishes here went to revised Julian. When did that change happen? All the Greek Orthodox here are on the revised Julian.

With the Greek Orthodox, it had something to do with Patriarch Meletios IV in the 1920's. There is much controversy that swirls around him.

For the OCA, it was 1982 (I think).

It's complicated, but as the centennial year of 1900 caused another loss of a Julian day relative to the Gregorian calculations, and as the Eastern churches continued to note the spring equinox on a day now 13 days off of its real time occurrence (somehow that impacts the Paschalion I've been told), pressure to reform the calendar began to grow in the east. At some point, for economic reasons perhaps, Greece adopted the civil calendar and the regimes replacing the Ottoman and Tsarist empires dud the same immediately. But the chaos in Russia precluded Russian Orthodox participation in the pan Orthodox council which pushed through the change in the 1920s. Since a millennial year does not result in further slippage between the two calendars,(it has to do with the absence of leap days in the original miscalculations) the 7th of January will be the 25th of December on the Julian calendar though the year 2101, when January 8th Gregorian will be December 25th Julian.

If that doesn't make your head spun, you're probably sleeping.

Actually...the increasing gap does not affect me in the least. Our Holy Fathers celebrated feasts on the Julian calendar, and I would like to do the same.

Don't forget that great Saints like Polycarp of Smyrna also celebrated Pascha according to the "Quartodeciman" calculation or the Judaic 14th month of Nisan.

So we shouldn't do everything all the Fathers once did . . .

Alex

Dear DMD,

The addition of an extra day in 1900 to the Gregorian figuring of the Julian calendar dates was ignored, as you know, by the Armenians in the Holy Land which is why they continue to celebrate Christmas/Theophany on January 18th rather than on January 19th to this day . . .

Alex

I don't know. Do you cherry pick specific Fathers and emulate them? That is between you and your spiritual father. I prefer to attempt to emulate the consensus of the fathers. But of course, I cannot do so in this case because my current parish is on the revised Julian. My last parish was on the Julian and I was very pleased.

Dear Recluse,

I try not to cherry-pick anything but cherries.

It is ultimately what the Church pronounces which is our guide.

When St John Damascus was defending the veneration of icons, he was told by someone that St Epiphanius was somehow against them.

While St John denied this, he added, in case it were true, that "just because one sparrow has sung, does not mean that spring is here."

And the Church today is divided over the use of the Julian and Revised calendars. The Orthodox Church of Finland uses the full Gregorian calendar, including the Western calculation of Pascha.

The UGCC has both calendars, Julian and Gregorian (no Revised Julian that can be seen).

It has divided our Church and even individual parishes. A real pastoral challenge.

And then there are those who adhere to the Julian calendar, not because of the Fathers or what the Gregorian does to the Apostles' Fast etc., but due to a sense of tradition.

At the same time, the ones who yell the loudest about tradition in our church are the same ones who excuse themselves from attending Church on Jan. 6 and 7 because of their work commitments and the like.

(One student of mine told me that his father said that those of the Eastern Church who celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25th are "garbage." When I asked Jeremy how his Christmas was this week, he told me that "dad had to go to work.")

The fact is our parishes aren't full on the Eve of the Nativity and on Jan. 7th. The parishes who celebrate on the Western calendar are full - and full of young people too.

I respect the Fathers and tradition. There is a real pastoral crisis going on with the above.

Any ideas?

Alex