www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News ROCOR says no to Chambesy process

This is more than a shot across the bow, it is a direct hit to the hopes of those aspiring to some sort of resolution of the century old divisions within North American Orthodoxy.

I've been around long enough to say this:

ROCOR: They're in. They're out. They're in. They're out. They're in. They're on the way out....again.

That's how they roll.

Nothing new.

I tend to agree with the response written by Archimandrite Demetrios Carellas, but I am sure that some people will over-react to the letter and make anti-Russian comments in time.

Seriously, the problem is that the praxis and rigors which ROCOR espouses and its members theoretically follow with enthusiastic abandon, are not likely to be those adopted in the end by a unified administration. For better or worse, they fear that their uniqueness will be lost in a unified church and those fears are not unrealistic. Don't forget that they have schismatics to their right who are waiting to dive into the pile.

This is a statement of opinion, it is not a statement of fact. The members of ROCOR that I know personally do not reflect this opinion.

I think the Fr. Demetrios' words are worthy of repeating:



I think that unity within the Byzantine Churches (Orthodox and Catholic) on, what Fr. Demetrios calls, "critical issues" of daily life for the average Christian is a worthy call.

Now, parts of the letter by Kyr Kyril do worry me for the future of a united Orthodox Church in America.

Now, does this have to do with the current tension between Moscow and Constantinople? The conspiracy theorist inside me says "maybe." Timing wise it seems to be another shot fired in the war of words.

I agree.

I am less concerned about the other parts of the letter, because I read it as supporting a proper canonical structure, that is, a structure that fits with past Orthodox practice (e.g., Cyprus, etc.).

I am sixty years old, the son and brother of an Orthodox priest and one who has witnessed the good and bad of the ROCOR over the course of my life and my experiences.

I do not wish to list all of my bases for my opinion about their leadership and some of their communion, but I will say that historically the manner in which many of their clergy treated other Orthodox clergy during their years of non-canonical status was more often than not disrespectful to say the least. Often within small communities split by schisms over the decades there was a display of spiritual arrogance and disdain for others shown by many of their faithful as well who often made it clear, whenever they could, that they viewed their external faith as somehow 'more Orthodox' and 'better' than that of the rest of us.

Metropolitan Laurus of thrice blessed memory worked diligently and with a great deal of courage to break the ROCOR out of their self-imposed shell. Now that he is gone, it appears that those who would return to isolation and triumphalism may be gaining the upper hand. If that is true, it is a real loss for all of us for their good works in printing, iconography and spiritual growth enrich all of us.

When they were out of the canonical church, it is a fact that some of their local hierarchs will willing to wade into parish and property disputes between congregationally minded local parish communities and their canonical Bishops in both the OCA and the ACROD - this too is difficult to forget and overcome for many of us - especially since some of these events occurred in the not too distant past. (I speak of the Mayfield and Clymer situations in particular.)

So pardon me if I have an opinion that is at odds with yours.

'Pravda je pravda', as my dido would say. Look it up.

I am 50 years old, a convert to Catholicism from Methodism, and I have lots of Russian Orthodox friends, and I attend Church from time to time at the Cathedral in San Francisco, and I have not noticed the kind of problems you relate in your posts. I guess we have differing opinions on the matter. Your opinion of ROCOR is not reflective of the truth (pravda) as I have experienced it. Such is life.

Me too. Thank God for ROCOR!

Ditto.

Of course you wouldn't notice, you suffer from the same affliction.

Ya know, I wonder if some bishops in ROCOR are starting to think twice? Oh and dont worry this thread is already doomed. Just bring up Putin.

About what?

I have to agree with the ROCOR position. I like their disciple, (I attend a ROCOR church, but I am still Catholic) and -- I truly hate saying this -- I really don't like a lot of what I hear going on in the OCA, besides thing like communal confession. They run a pretty tight ship and learned from their early mistakes. (I would have converted to ROCOR a couple of decades ago were it not for the rebaptism practice at the time.) I have always found ROCOR parishes to be the warmest, their priests very charitible, pious and unassuming. It is my hope that ROCOR's canonical regularization in 2007 would act as a leaven to other Orthodox churches.
The jurisdictional divisions never bothered me in American Orthodoxy...it can help contain certain malaises that would otherwise spread like wildfire in American Catholic parishes...although I am glad that the OCA exists as a genuine American jurisdiction too. I worry that the church leaders who are seeking to reorganize the American dioceses are too enamoured of ecclesiastical emprire building and are far removed from the average man in the pew -- or lack thereof :-).