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Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
BTW Father Deacon Lance, is there still a prohibition in the Catholic faith against us attending the services of assemblies that are outside the Church?

No. Only communing is prohibited.


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Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
Okay. Pagan temples WAS over the top. Nonetheless, there was a time that we didn't call them "separated brethren." There was another word for those who refused the truth of the apostolic faith and determinedly stuck to their errors, despite all efforts to help them see the light of truth.

Is it helpful to this woman to make her think that she is somehow pleasing to God in her rebellion against the truth which is the apostolic (meaning both Orthodox and Catholic) faith? Do we do people favors by making them think they are peachy keen okay in their rebellion against the Church which Christ established upon the Apostles?

Yes there was a time, that time is no longer. Now we recognize they are our brothers in Christ who err in good faith. You speak of them as if they were the reformers who rebelled rather than people raised in an errant traditon hundreds of years after the fact. I urge you to read the Catechism and the various documents from the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity.


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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
That you are ignorant of such a thing, does not make it disappear. Liturgicaly the Roman Rite uses them at Confirmation Masses and the Paschal Vigil Mass. Episcopals, Lutherans, Methodists, and Presbyterians also use them.

Okay then...chalk me up as ignorant. Never heard of it in the Orthodox Church. So it is entirely permissible for Catholic faithful (including Cardinals) to receive this "re-affirmation of baptism" from protestant assemblies?

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Originally Posted by Recluse
Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
That you are ignorant of such a thing, does not make it disappear. Liturgicaly the Roman Rite uses them at Confirmation Masses and the Paschal Vigil Mass. Episcopals, Lutherans, Methodists, and Presbyterians also use them.

Okay then...chalk me up as ignorant. Never heard of it in the Orthodox Church. So it is entirely permissible for Catholic faithful (including Cardinals) to receive this "re-affirmation of baptism" from protestant assemblies?

Yes.


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Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
BTW Father Deacon Lance, is there still a prohibition in the Catholic faith against us attending the services of assemblies that are outside the Church?

For the Orthodox, we are obedient to our spiritual father on this issue. Unless it is a funeral or wedding of a close family member or friend, I have been instructed not to attend heterodox assemblies.

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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by Recluse
Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
That you are ignorant of such a thing, does not make it disappear. Liturgicaly the Roman Rite uses them at Confirmation Masses and the Paschal Vigil Mass. Episcopals, Lutherans, Methodists, and Presbyterians also use them.

Okay then...chalk me up as ignorant. Never heard of it in the Orthodox Church. So it is entirely permissible for Catholic faithful (including Cardinals) to receive this "re-affirmation of baptism" from protestant assemblies?

Yes.

Interesting. Can you show me the language which permits Catholics to receive renewal of the baptismal vow in a protestant assembly from a protestant "minister?"

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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by Irish_Ruthenian
Okay. Pagan temples WAS over the top. Nonetheless, there was a time that we didn't call them "separated brethren." There was another word for those who refused the truth of the apostolic faith and determinedly stuck to their errors, despite all efforts to help them see the light of truth.

Is it helpful to this woman to make her think that she is somehow pleasing to God in her rebellion against the truth which is the apostolic (meaning both Orthodox and Catholic) faith? Do we do people favors by making them think they are peachy keen okay in their rebellion against the Church which Christ established upon the Apostles?

Yes there was a time, that time is no longer. Now we recognize they are our brothers in Christ who err in good faith. You speak of them as if they were the reformers who rebelled rather than people raised in an errant traditon hundreds of years after the fact. I urge you to read the Catechism and the various documents from the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity.

Honestly, Father Deacon, I'm not trying to be a jerk here (some days it just comes naturally), but I think there is a vast difference between someone who is just ignorant and someone who has had things explained to them over and over and obdurately refuses to change.

I was thinking about your post this morning and it just strikes me as funny that those in the Catholic Church are held to such a high standard of behavior that if you do the slightest little thing wrong, you are in danger of hellfire, but those outside the Church, after being reproved for their error (or sometimes outright wickedness) over and over and over again are somehow not in danger of such judgment.

This is just my take and feelings on it this morning. I'm sure I'm wrong, but I'm just venting a little here. Feel free to screw my head around to a straight position.

Thanks

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From the horse's mouth, as they say: Cardinal Sean's Blog [cardinalseansblog.org]

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Originally Posted by Utroque
From the horse's mouth, as they say: Cardinal Sean's Blog [cardinalseansblog.org]

His dedication to the Second Vatican Council and ecumenism is apparent. I noticed that he did not mention that he was anointed for baptismal renewal by a female Methodist "pastor."

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Originally Posted by Recluse
Interesting. Can you show me the language which permits Catholics to receive renewal of the baptismal vow in a protestant assembly from a protestant "minister?"

96. According to the local situation and as occasion may arise, Catholics may, in common celebration with other Christians, commemorate the baptism which unites them, by renewing the engagement to undertake a full Christian life which they have assumed in the promises of their baptism, and by pledging to cooperate with the grace of the Holy Spirit in striving to heal the divisions which exist among Christians.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p..._chrstuni_doc_19930325_directory_en.html


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Originally Posted by Recluse
Originally Posted by Utroque
From the horse's mouth, as they say: Cardinal Sean's Blog [cardinalseansblog.org]

His dedication to the Second Vatican Council and ecumenism is apparent. I noticed that he did not mention that he was anointed for baptismal renewal by a female Methodist "pastor."

Do you see him with all those female Disciples in the next photo? What next? As one who lives within a suffragan diocese, I can assure you he is much loved by most for what he has done to heal deep wounds. Receiving a little sprinkling from a vested Methodist female will not tarnish that affection. Did you notice that he was not vested?

When I was a boy the booming, sonorous Boston/Irish voice of his predecessor of blessed memory, Archbishop Cushing, shook my soul and it changed my life forever. Learn from these men the kindness that befits us as Christians.

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Originally Posted by Utroque
Receiving a little sprinkling from a vested Methodist female will not tarnish that affection.

Agreed. The protestants are happy about it....and many of the Catholics are scandalized.




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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
96. According to the local situation and as occasion may arise, Catholics may, in common celebration with other Christians, commemorate the baptism which unites them, by renewing the engagement to undertake a full Christian life which they have assumed in the promises of their baptism, and by pledging to cooperate with the grace of the Holy Spirit in striving to heal the divisions which exist among Christians.

This a document from Vatican 2?

I suppose you could interpret it to mean that a Cardinal can receive an anointing for the renewal of baptism from a female protestant "minister"....but I would choose not to interpret it as such.


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Originally Posted by Recluse
....and many of the Catholics are scandalized

They'll get over it.

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Originally Posted by Utroque
They'll get over it.

Perhaps not.

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