Honestly, Father Deacon, I'm not trying to be a jerk here (some days it just comes naturally), but I think there is a vast difference between someone who is just ignorant and someone who has had things explained to them over and over and obdurately refuses to change.
I was thinking about your post this morning and it just strikes me as funny that those in the Catholic Church are held to such a high standard of behavior that if you do the slightest little thing wrong, you are in danger of hellfire, but those outside the Church, after being reproved for their error (or sometimes outright wickedness) over and over and over again are somehow not in danger of such judgment.
This is just my take and feelings on it this morning. I'm sure I'm wrong, but I'm just venting a little here. Feel free to screw my head around to a straight position.
Thanks
Conversion is accomplished by the Holy Spirit, not us. We must witness but never judge. It is not for us to decide the time and place. I know of some conversions that came after 30 or 40 years others on a deathbed. We also don't know what barriers members of the Church have place in others way by their bad example or behavior.
As to condemnation for the slightest wrong, who is teaching you such things? We fall, we get up. As the prayer for the litany of the dead tells us: "As a kind and gracious God, forgive every sin committed by him in word, deed or thought, since there is no person who lives and does not sin. You alone are without sin, your justice is everlasting justice and your word is truth."
EVERYONE here recognizes this was NOT a Sacrament, yet some act like they are totally ignorant of this fact. The Cardinal knew this was NOT a Sacrament, so he let it be done.
I'm SURE the Methodist female "bishop" knew that the Catholic Church and the Cardinal did not recognize her as a bishop, and only a layman. She thought it was a kind gesture. That's it.
SHE didn't go around telling people, "Hey, the Catholic Church now recognizes my priestly ministry!"
The sad thing is that it is CATHOLICS who are going around spreading the false rumor that "the Catholic Church now recognizes her priestly ministry."
The sad thing is that it is CATHOLICS who are going around spreading the false rumor that "the Catholic Church now recognizes her priestly ministry."
I think the sad thing is......that this man permitted this to happen....knowing that it was going to scandalize the more traditionally minded Catholic individual. I can assure you that such an event would never have taken place before V2.
The sad thing is that it is CATHOLICS who are going around spreading the false rumor that "the Catholic Church now recognizes her priestly ministry."
I think the sad thing is......that this man permitted this to happen....knowing that it was going to scandalize the more traditionally minded Catholic individual. I can assure you that such an event would never have taken place before V2.
But this is only my opinion.
Some are scandalized by everything since they are looking to be scandalized. They need to accept the Church has changed its way of interacting with other Christians and that includes the Orthodox. Attending an Orthodox sevice was as forbidden as a Protestant one.
Some are scandalized by everything since they are looking to be scandalized.
And some are scandalized because there are legitimate reasons to be scandalized. The Catholic Church has definitely changed since V2....you are certainly correct about that.
Some are scandalized by everything since they are looking to be scandalized.
And some are scandalized because there are legitimate reasons to be scandalized. The Catholic Church has definitely changed since V2....you are certainly correct about that.
There are certainly enough things in the Church to be scandalized about: child absuse, liturgical abuse, financial abuse, etc. Prayer with fellow Christians is not one of them.
Some are scandalized by everything since they are looking to be scandalized. They need to accept the Church has changed its way of interacting with other Christians and that includes the Orthodox. Attending an Orthodox sevice was as forbidden as a Protestant one.
I am not scandalized by these types of things in the Catholic Church. I was raised Methodist and became Episcopalian when I was 22 years old. After a few years as an Episcopalian I came to the conclusion that I should convert to Catholicism, so I met with a Catholic priest who said: "You don't need to convert; instead, just be the best Episcopalian you can be." I said "Thanks," and left and went to a different Catholic parish - one open to receiving converts - and that was that.
Does weird stuff in the Catholic Church shock or scandalize me? No. I have seen a lot of strange things in my 26 years as a Catholic, and most of the strangeness comes from the hierarchy.
It would not surprise me if someday the Catholic Church found a way to recognize the ministerial orders of the Methodist Church.
There are certainly enough things in the Church to be scandalized about: child absuse, liturgical abuse, financial abuse, etc. Prayer with fellow Christians is not one of them.
I am not scandalized by liturgical abuse anymore, because it is so common where I live. I am on occasion surprised by the lunacy that passes for liturgy in the SF East Bay area, but I am not scandalized by it anymore because liturgical abuse has become normative in most parishes.
There are certainly enough things in the Church to be scandalized about: child absuse, liturgical abuse, financial abuse, etc. Prayer with fellow Christians is not one of them.
You are correct. Had I still been Catholic....I would also have been scandalized by this act of what I would call "extreme ecumenism."
I am not scandalized by liturgical abuse anymore, because it is so common where I live. I am on occasion surprised by the lunacy that passes for liturgy in the SF East Bay area, but I am not scandalized by it anymore because liturgical abuse has become normative in most parishes.
God bless you my friend! My conversion to Holy Orthodoxy involved many elements....but the frequent Liturgical abuse was one of the final deciding factors. The straw that broke the proverbial camel's back.
I think that is why this episode disturbs me. It is a bit of a flashback. I saw the Liturgy of the Catholic Church (mostly the Latin Church) looking more and more protestant. It pains me to see a Cardinal in this scenario.
These kinds of ecumenical "gestures" have a different significance for the various participants in them. I have no doubt that Cardinal O'Malley saw his actions in this incident as rather innocuous, but clearly the Rev. Anne Robertson saw the events that unfolded in a very different light.
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